Do the Next Right Thing

You.

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by life's.

Endless choices or found yourself stuck at a crossroads, unsure of which path to take? It's a common experience, but there's a surprisingly simple solution that can clear the fog. Do the next right thing. This principle, though straightforward, has deep roots in mental clarity, physical health, and spiritual growth. I'm Joe. My pal over there is Kurt, and.

We are dudes in progress. Hello, Kurt.

Hey, Joe.

What's going on, dude?

I'm excited. It's Friday. We're recording. The week is pretty much done. I'm going to New York City tomorrow to see spam a lot with my daughter and my youngest son and his girlfriend. So it's going to rain in New York City, but I'm going to enjoy it anyway.

Sounds awesome.

I'm coming off of a work trip myself and a little adventure last night.

That we don't have to necessarily talk about it, but I didn't get much sleep.

But, yeah, here I am, raring and ready to go. Well, I'm going to pep you up.

And cheer you up, like I always got to do. Actually, I won't be able to meet with you tomorrow. Now that I think of it, I got to be out of the house. We're going to miss each other tomorrow on our Saturday morning.

Yeah, and I missed last Saturday because I was on a work trip to Kansas City. So maybe we'll catch up during the week. Yeah, I can't go two weeks.

I know. Or maybe Sunday. I'm going to do nothing on Sunday.

Awesome, man. In the spirit of our theme today, doing the next right thing, when was the last time you were stuck and.

Didn'T know what to do next?

Well, first I want to say I really loved your intro. It got me intrigued for what you're going to cover today, because I think many times in my life I have been stuck. At least I felt I'm stuck and needed clarity on what my next move was going to be because I've always been the type of person looking for the next thing. Boy, that's a constant in my life. I often think back to my young career, if I was going to answer that question, the one that sticks out to me the most. When I first got out of college, I had my first job working in a bearing manufacturer and customer service. And let me tell you, Joe, that.

Was a tough job, and it was.

Tough dealing with customers who wanted their bearings. And we were late and they just didn't want to hear it. But I was there. Maybe let's just say it was six months. And I was wondering, fresh out of college, figuring I wasn't doing something that really stimulated my interest, let's say. And I went to HR was the place that was the next thing for me to do, go see what was available to me.

And he basically told me, you're going.

To have to wait a year before you can do anything. And that was not something I wanted to hear. Wow. So it was really difficult for me. I ended up staying in that job for three years. Yeah. Before I ever moved on to. And I was always looking for what my next thing was going to be. So I think it's been a good path. I ended up in the places I want. The whole idea of doing a long.

Time is just about unlocking yourself. Sometimes I can get decision fatigue, or I'm confused, or I have low energy, or I have brain fog or name it. Name whatever you want. For some reason, I'm not able to make a decision on what to do. And that's when this idea of doing the next right thing really comes into play for about. It's just about keeping it simple. When life gets tough, really about doing the next right thing, it's like taking just a step at a time. Kurt, focusing on just what I can control. This whole idea helps me stay grounded, make better choices, find some peace in the chaos. It's really straightforward, but it's a powerful way to help me navigate through life, especially when I'm just not sure. When I'm just not sure. Just to just kind of take a little tiny step at a time in the right direction and trust myself to know by intuition, by knowledge, by wisdom, by experience, that this is the right thing. And the key to going the next right thing are two words. Number one next and number two right. Don't look far ahead. Don't look far ahead. Just what's the next thing? But also make sure it's the right thing. Just make the decision to say, I don't know what the whole thing looks like, but I'm just going to do the next right thing. And that's the whole idea. And I kind of have some principles that I follow when I do this. I don't know if they're principles, Kurt.

Or more like slogans that I use.

For this whole idea of doing the next right thing, but I'd like to kind of go over those with you and we'll talk about them. Let me know your thoughts. I'm sure you have some amazing thoughts and ideas and insight and wisdom about this subject, because even though you may not have labeled it like I've labeled.

It doing the next right thing you do.

I've seen you do it. I've seen you do it in action.

And I've seen you be very successful at it.

Yeah, I like this topic. And to give you a slogan, we did this in past podcast shows. I'll give you one of my dad's sayings. Maybe I've said it before, but do something, even if it's wrong. So I don't know if I'm going to agree with your right thing. And I was thinking, remember, I've told you the story about Mike Dooley, who was one of the principal people that was in the secret by Rhonda Byrne in the movie, in the book. And he became famous from that. And I've read some of his books. But one of the things I always like getting some nugget out of things that I read and the one I always remember when he talks about selling a business and not knowing what his next thing was going to be, he didn't want to go back to accounting, where he was an accountant for several years. He got sick and hated that job. He had a couple of other ideas of what he could do and he finally said he was stuck and frustrated.

I said, I'm going to do the.

Least of the three suckiest ideas. I'm going to do something. And I think that's where I come.

From, too, in that I've always felt better.

When you're in this place, it's very frustrating. But I always felt better, especially if it was in my career and I was frustrating in what was happening. If I at least did something, I always felt better. And that's what the advice I've always given to people. If you're frustrated, I've said this to my kids, if you don't like what's going on, apply for another job. That always makes me feel better. Or start looking at, like you said, do something. Do something small, take a training class, do something.

Yeah, that's great advice.

You don't have to necessarily take the job. It's not like you've made a decision.

To leave your job and go on a home, but you're just see what.

This next step would look like. In fact, I'm going to change around the list that I have here because the last one on the list kind.

Of meets up with what your dad say. His dad said.

Tell me that again. What did your dad used to say?

Do something even if it's wrong.

Yes. And here's how I put that. And this was going to be the last thing I talked about. But since you brought up what your dad said, make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires at least one step.

Okay.

Yeah.

A little action.

Yeah. Make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires at least one step. Because we can make a decision to do nothing, right?

Yeah. How does that saying go? If you decided to do nothing, you've made a decision.

Yeah.

It's in a song.

Yeah.

There's something in there I can't remember. I know the song, too, but. Yes, I get it. So let's look at this concept of make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires to take one step.

When I think about this, to me.

It helps break this cycle of overthinking.

To ruminate on a decision, to angst over it.

It helps break that cycle just to.

Make any decision, as long as it requires one step.

Just make a decision, whatever it might.

Be, and take that very first step.

It also helps me learn through those actions. So if I force myself to take a decision, I'm going to learn something from that little tiny decision. If I let myself learn, I'm going to learn from that action, something. It may be that, oh, I don't want to do that again. Or it might be, oh, that feels good. Or, oh, that's interesting. And it could be the tiniest of steps, or the tiniest of decisions. Just make a decision. If all your decisions that you have in front of you. If all the choices you have in front of you. I love this, man. If they all suck, choose the least suckiest.

That's right. I love it.

Yeah. Because at least you're moving down a path. You're not going to learn anything unless you get little feedback, right? Yeah.

So that's one principle or slogan that.

I kind of work within myself. Make a decision, any decision, as long.

As it requires at least one step.

So if I find myself stuck on taking action or making a decision, I.

Just decide something, right? And this kind of drives my family.

Crazy because I do this a lot. I'll make a decision. When we're kind of meandering around or.

Floundering on what we want to do.

Or the direction we want to go or whatever it might be, I will just decide. And then if it's a decision that nobody likes, all of a sudden people are deciding, right.

I don't want to eat at Taco Bell, dad. Again. So, yeah, make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires at least one step. Here's the next one for me. Defeat the blank page. Now, what do you think I mean by defeat the blank page?

A blank page means you're stuck for sure. If you've got writer's block. That's very frustrating when you've got no idea what you want to do next. But I've heard people say, just start writing anything.

This happens to me a lot when I'm creating a presentation, a sales presentation, or I'm presenting in front of a group, or I'm working in PowerPoint, or I'm trying to put together some script at work, or not your script. Your script is computer programming and things like that. I'm talking about an actual script for a sales presentation or whatever it might be. Sometimes I'm sitting there and I just.

Don'T even know where to start. If you can just defeat the blank page, put something on there. Gobbly gook. A word, a letter, an idea, even.

If it sucks, even if it's terrible, just defeat the blank page, and then that'll give you just that tiny bit of momentum, that little tiny power of momentum. At least if I put something on there that sucks, I'll know what not to keep on there. So I have to put something in its place. So defeat the blank page. It really helps me overcome this fear of imperfection or this perfectionism that we've talked about so much in the past, this fear of imperfection that it's not going to be perfect. I'm thinking about it, thinking that great opening phrase, that powerful opening phrase, and it never comes until I just defeat that blank page.

It's a great point, and it's tough when you're all alone trying to do this. And it makes me think of brainstorming, which I've always loved that concept with others. You know, how someone has an idea, and there are very strict rules for brainstorming if you're in a group where don't judge what the other person says. Let everyone get their ideas out in front of everybody on a board. Remember doing an exercise like this? I taught a class as part of an effort we had at work one time, and I went around the country, and the brainstorming was a big part of that because you solve problems with the input from others, people that are close to the problem, and it's a little more difficult by yourself. But, yeah, you got to get past that white page. But it's amazing how the ideas feed on each other.

That's a great point. And I do use this a lot. Most of the time when I'm working by myself. But that's what brainstorming is all about, right?

When you don't know the solution to.

Something, just get a group of people together and start throwing junk up on a whiteboard, throwing postit notes up on a whiteboard, whatever it might be. No idea is a bad idea. That's the rule, right? We're just going to put it all up there. But as an aside, you ever been in one of those brainstorming sessions where everybody says, that's the major rule, there are no bad ideas, we're going to put everything up there. But, boy, let somebody think something's a bad idea or something that they've done in the past and didn't work.

I know it.

And you get that scowl or that huff or that, oh, my gosh, we've done that in the past. Never, ever break that rule, because that will squelch the creativity in a New York second man. If you start scowling and huffing and puffing about an idea that somebody has, just throw them up there. So brainstorming is a perfect example of defeating the blank page. This really helps me a lot. Take action somewhere. Move something, fill in that blank, fill that void with something, and just see where it takes you. Get a little bit of momentum by defeating the blank page.

Yeah, for sure.

This next one is one of my favorites, and it's something that over the past few years, I've used a lot. And there's such wisdom in this short little phrase. I'll go as far as I can see, and when I get there, I'll see further.

Yeah, I've heard you say that many times.

I'll bet I say it 20 times a week at work.

Where'd you get that one?

Sick of it.

I have no idea where I got that. I have no idea. It's not mine. I got it from somewhere, but I can't remember where I got it. I've used it so much, I guess it's become mine. It is a bit of a joism. Like I said, I say it all the time at work because we can get so hung up on trying to put together a full plan from a to z and pressure test that plan and try to make sure that we've accounted for every single contingency and every single problem that could happen, and then.

Not only plan for that problem, but.

Address that problem before it even happens.

So we use all this energy to create this big plan, and I'm a big believer in no, let's just go as far as we can see, this.

Is one of those really powerful ideas behind doing the next right thing.

No, let's just go as far as we can see.

We know we're heading in the right direction.

It's a little foggy up there, but.

We know, number one, we're traveling in the right direction.

Number two, we're with the people we want to be with, right? And we're on the right road.

We know those three things right now because we can look side to side.

And we can look down, but that's.

As far as we can see right now. Let's take a step further. Let's go as far as we can see and ride around that foggy bend.

That we can't see now. We'll be able to see when we get there. Let's go as far as we can see. And when we get there, we'll see further.

To me, that's just embracing the idea of incremental progress.

Just taking a step at a time.

And learning to adapt with evolving goals and changes in ideas and changes in thoughts and visions, and being able to adapt to that.

Just go as far as you can see, man.

Yeah, it's so true. People think they know what the answer is before they've really done any of the actions or research. And the fact of the matter is, you don't. There's so many examples I can give where you think you know everything there is to know about a problem, and you just don't. So don't even think that you do. There's so many things to learn by taking that action. I go back to taking my story further. One of the things I started looking.

At was I felt like I would.

Be really good at working with. I looked. I went to a job interview while I was still working in that customer service position, and it was for what they called the junior republic. And these were troubled kids. They had, like, a high school set up for them, and they go through a whole program, really, of high school, but they had counselors there, and I don't think I even needed a degree in counseling. But I was like, boy, I think I might be pretty good. I like working with kids. And when I went for the interview, I might have even gotten as far as they were going to offer me the job. And it was about, this goes back a long time. I was only making. Should I even say what I was making? I was making $18,000 a year at the time. So it goes back a long time.

And I was going to lose $5,000.

A year if I took the job, and I went, you know what? I don't like this job. What was really interesting about that, what I did learn, is I said to myself, I'll give myself a pat in the back. I said, you know what? I could do that kind of work on a volunteer basis. I could stay in the business world and make a better living, raise a family, and I could join big brothers, big sisters, for instance. And that's what I did. And I got a lot of satisfaction out of doing that program for many years. But that was not the career path of social work. I shut that door right there.

In the field that I'm in, it's highly technical. I work with a lot of industrial manufacturing equipment and a lot of mechanical.

And a lot of moving parts and.

A lot of engineers. A lot of engineering goes on where I work and where I've worked for the past almost 20 years.

And I'm not an engineer.

I can hold my own mechanically, barely, right? Just about as much as your everyday Joe. No pun intended. But I can hold my own on that. I mean, I know my way around a few things here and there, but nowhere near what an expert in my industry would be. And I don't necessarily have a plan.

Ever, from a to z, because I.

Embrace this concept to go as far as I can see. And when I get there, I'll see further. And sometimes, Kurt, it drives people crazy for two reasons. Number one, there are many people of a certain mindset. Cannot handle ambiguity in any way whatsoever. Just can't handle it, can't deal with it, can't handle it. It just uncomfortable.

Yeah, right.

Makes them uncomfortable. Me, on the other hand, I'm okay with it at a significant level, because.

I know I'll go as far as I can see in.

When I get there, I'll see further.

I can't tell you how many times this has happened. And I've been fairly successful in my field. In a field that is full of engineers and full of technically minded people, mechanically minded people. And I don't necessarily lean that way. I'm more relational.

As we learned in our emotional intelligence episodes. Right.

We learned a little bit about ourselves there. But I'm telling you, man, I'm not being braggadocious here. I think we should take a drink every time I say braggadocious, and take a drink every time you say, I.

Think you are being braggadocious. But that's another topic for another day.

Yes, my humility is only overshadowed by my greatness.

There's another Joe.

But this idea has really served me well in an industry that is highly technical, highly engineering minded, and highly kind of mechanical, process oriented. So go as far as I can see, and when I get there, I'll see further. And finally, I love this one, Kurt. Right now, I can't do that, but what can I do?

What's an example of that?

You have a sales presentation that you have to give, and there are physical limitations to that. You can't get to the right person. You can't go on site. There are lots of things, valid or invalid. Some of them may be just mental limitations. But let's talk about valid limitations, physical limitations, that when you realize that you can't do exactly what you want to do, ask yourself, okay, right now, I can't do that, but what can I do? I can send a letter. I can send an email. I can pick up the phone. I can call somebody else that might know that person. I can go on another path and try to reach out to a different customer. There's lots of things that I can do. Right now, I can't do that, but what can I do? In fact, it helps me in two ways. It helps me in creative problem solving to say, okay, I can't do that, but what can I do? Okay, now I forced myself down. Another question. I have to be creative and also leverages my strengths, because I may not be able to do what's physically or mentally or technically required right now, but I can do something. I can do something that is the next right thing. Right now, I can't do that, but what can I do?

Yeah. When I think of that question in my line of work, it usually involves training of some sort or asking questions to someone, reaching out to others who not how that can always get you around. You're trying to get over barriers around.

Them, under them, beyond them. Yeah.

So you're looking for anything that can help you get to where you want to go.

A lot of times, you're not in your mind.

I think you said it quickly, but a lot of these things are fears or falsehoods you've built up in your head that just aren't true.

Yeah.

I love this concept of doing the next right thing. And I had these four things. These were the four things that I defeated the blank page with, but I actually like to bring up two others.

If you don't mind.

We've got a little bit of time. The next one is. This is kind of to honor the now late, great Dan Miller, known very well in the entrepreneurial world, in the career he was a career path counselor and helped thousands, hundreds, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people. Well, I'm certainly probably sold millions of books. He wrote a book called 48 days to the work you love. And that has helped so many people either start their own business, find a new job, take a new path in life. And he recently passed away from pancreatic cancer. But he used to ask this question when people were in a situation where maybe they got fired or received bad news or were just in a bad, precarious, maybe negative situation, he would ask.

Okay.

What does this make possible? Ooh, what a powerful question, Dan. What does this make possible? I just got fired from my job completely out of the blue. I didn't.

But what I'm saying is, as an example, hypothetically.

Hypothetically, I just got fired from my job. I can spend some time in woe is me, and I think that's appropriate sometimes. But eventually I got to ask myself.

What does this make possible?

What are some of the things I always wanted to do or try or be that I couldn't because of this job or because of this relationship or because of this situation or because of this car? Let's say your car breaks down. Okay, what does this make possible? Maybe I can learn to walk to work, or I can ride, share with somebody and build a relationship. What does this make possible? It's just such a powerful question to get you out of that situation and to think creatively about your problem.

Yeah, funny. I had a conversation with someone just last night, which I'll keep anonymous, but we were talking about a family situation they were recently presented with where the husband's employer, I think they were bought out by another company, and the direction they were going was not a place that he was really happy with, and he wanted to do remote work. And they had a dream of taking the family living in an rv for long periods of time. And that was exactly the question that they asked themselves. Boy, they're very faith based, too, and said, is God telling us something here? Because the timing is right now. The timing is right.

I'm going to leave this job, and.

I'm going to go look for a job that's available for remote work. And that's what they did. I was like, florid. I wanted to talk more about that topic. We were talking about something else, but that was fascinating to me, to really look at that and say, you know what? Maybe this is the thing we've been looking for all along. You know, when you got something that's been in the back of your mind for a long time, like you want to make a change, but you just keep doing the same thing over and over again, and all of a sudden you have this external thing happen. You're like, oh, maybe it's time to make that change.

Right. So what does this make possible? My next kind of bonus question is.

I use this a lot on people closest to me, my family and my kids. What I always tell people is the fastest way to stop a conversation, a creative endeavor, whatever you're doing. The fastest way to stop it is to say, I don't know. That stops the process right there. I don't know. From the question as simple as, what do you want for dinner? I don't know. To something larger, like to even maybe mid range, where do you want to take vacation? Or something larger, like, how do we want to retire? When you say I don't know, that stops. That stops the process. It stops the conversation. It stops the creativity, it squelches it right there. So one question that I always ask is, okay, I know you don't know, but what if you did know and it just takes it to that next level, that next level to say, okay, now I'm just going to be forced to make something up. And that's okay, right?

Yes, that's okay.

Just to make something up. Be weird, creative, goofy, crazy.

Yeah.

Because something that you think of, like we said, is going to lead to more intuition or ideas for sure. I looked up that phrase we were talking about. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. That's from the rush song, free will.

No kidding.

Yes.

Think about it.

If you choose not to decide, you've made a choice.

Can't you hear Getty Lee singing?

Absolutely. I'm going to have to find that song now. Dude, I like that. I like that.

Listen to it.

Yeah, actually, that's a pretty good place to wrap up right there. I love this idea of doing the next right thing. And I love these kind of slogans, these principles or slogans that we use to help us do the next right thing. Make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires at least one step. Or as your dad would say, do.

Something, even if it's wrong.

Even if it's wrong. Right.

Because that is the right thing. If you're doing something and taking action, it is the right thing.

Absolutely. So make a decision, any decision, as long as it requires at least one step. Defeat that blank page. Put something on that blank page, either physically or metaphorically, defeat the blank page. Go as far as you can see. And when you get there, you'll see further.

Right.

I love that.

Right now.

I'm sorry, no, great topic.

And I still have these things.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, Kurt, I'll have to do some heavy editing there.

But no, just great topic, because I still today, to this day, you mentioned it quickly. The one I'm going through right now is what's my life going to be in? I'm not even going to say retirement. I'm going to call it semi retirement or leaving my career. I'm heavily thinking about that, and I'm.

Not that close in traditional terms, I.

Think some might think, but I think it's a great place to explore. I'm excited about it, and you and I talk about it, and I talk with other friends about it. I think it's really important. And I was doing some work on that today. Matter of fact, it's going to be my resource for this week.

Awesome.

So, to wrap it up, go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll see further. Right now, I can't do that, but what can I do?

And our bonus principles or slogans, what.

Does this make possible? And then finally, I know you don't know, but what if you did know.

Good joeisms? It's the episode of it.

I like it. Let me ask you a final question, and I'll try to ask this of myself. Kurt, what is the next right thing that you need to.

Oh, boy, that's an open question. The next right thing that I need to do. Well, mine is, again, I'm doing research and I'm looking at lots of things. What would be a passion? What would be something interesting? I was looking at some notes in my work computer, Joe, just this week, because we were cleaning up some old files and getting rid of this file share that we have. Would you believe I found a word document of goals from, like, 14 years ago.

Wow.

And one of them on there was to start an Internet business. And there was a very specific format. It must have been a book I was reading. And that's an area that I have hammered now, looking back, that must be 14 years ago. Certainly have made some progress in this space, but it's still an area that intrigues me that I'm continuing to look at. What am I going to do when I am semi retired? What is that interesting income producing.

Thing that I'm going to be doing, that.

I enjoy, that brings help to others? There's a whole lot we've talked about all the different things that that could possibly be, but, yeah, so I'm doing research in that area all the time.

Mine is very similar to that. My next right thing is something that will take me down a path that scares me a little bit, and the exercise itself scares me for all kinds of reasons. But there are a couple of emails that. There's a lot of emails that I have to send out, but there are a couple that I have to send out in order to move this project forward, and it's related to a career path that I'm considering. But there's a couple of exercises that I have to do to move me down that path that I haven't done. And so there's some emails that I have to send out. Let's call them 20 emails. I have to do one next right thing, and if that one next right thing is just sending one of those emails, that's what I have to do. So that's my next right thing. And I know I'm a little ambiguous about it, but we'll probably talk about that as time goes on. But I have to do this next right thing. And that's a couple of emails that I have to send, and if it's one, that's the one next right thing that I have to do.

Well, sometimes that next thing is a hard thing to do for whatever reason.

Yeah, well, what is the easy. And that's the thing. And I'm really good at this, Kurt, and here I am, braggadocious again. But I'm really good at taking things like this and saying, okay, if that one thing is very hard.

What do.

We do to make that easier? How do we break that down into the tiniest step? And that tiniest step just might mean walking outside. Okay, we've done that. Now we're getting into the car. Okay, now we're going to the library, and we are finally returning that library book from 30 years ago.

There was a guy at the library. I was at the library today. A guy was paying a bill. He had a $40 bill. He was trying to make a down payment on from something he lost.

Oh, my God.

Speaking of. Oh, boy. Starting to have little flashbacks.

That's funny. Well, let's go do the next right thing. How about your win for the week?

All right, my win for the week is not nearly as amazing, although it was kind of fun. I've been contemplating buying a bicycle for many springs when spring and the weather starts getting better. I always thought about getting a bicycle. Never made the investment and I was in target getting an order for my wife. I think it was.

I don't know.

It was like a late Sunday night is what it was. And I look at the bikes, I always go by there and look at them. This $350 bike was marked down to $104, and I could hardly believe it. I thought about it all night, and I told my wife, I'm going to get this bike at Target. It's $104. And sure enough, when I went over there, the woman said, she was like, I can't believe this is an amazing price. It's a Schwinn. Nothing all that special.

But, yeah.

She goes, I almost bought it myself. She goes, my husband and I spent $450 or $550 each on bikes just last spring. So great deal. I got a bike, and I got a new seat for it. I got a helmet, and I'm ready to go biking.

Nice, man. I love road biking. And there was a time that I rode my bike every single day. I bought a used bike, a nice used bike. I think the brand new. This bike was like $2,000, and I bought it for $500 used from a bike shop. So it was really well taken care of and reconditioned and everything. So it's a nice bike. There's probably some hyperbole in there. Maybe not $2,000. Probably close to $1,000 when it was new, but I bought it for a few hundred dollars. And I rode that bike all the time. And when we moved into the new place, it kind of got put into the garage, and I was kind of out of my rhythm, and I really have to get back into bike riding.

Good.

That's a great purchase, man.

That's a great tuned up. Yeah, take it out. I've got some bike paths. I'm just going to be cruising around. I'm going to find some flat areas. I tried to pedal up the hill, and I nearly had a heart attack. But I'm getting used to it. Got some sore muscles I didn't know I had.

That's all right.

You go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll see further.

It's a great example of it.

Yes.

What's your win for the week? I hope you had a good trip to Kansas City.

Yeah, actually, that is my win for the week. I did a work trip to Kansas City, and this time I got to take my wife with me. Karen never gets to travel as much as I do, and she doesn't go on these business trips ever with me. This may be probably the second or.

Third time in my 20 year or.

So career in this industry. So she doesn't get to travel like I do, but she went with me to Kansas City, and, man, it was a blast. She got to meet a lot of my work colleagues, a couple really nice dinners that my company paid for and a couple other companies paid for. I mean, when I talk about nice dinners, I'm talking about the nice of the nice dinners, right? We got the real good booth at Olive Garden. Let's just put it this way.

That is nice.

That is nice. The back booth at Olive Garden. Wow.

I hope I get that when I go to the china buffet tonight. I can only hope.

Well, we had a blast. It was such a good time, and we got to spend time together, and I had my stuff that I had to do during the day, my work stuff that I had to do during the day, and she stayed at the hotel. But Kansas City is a neat city, man. They have a nice little trolley system that goes up and down main street. That just puts you a couple blocks from all the important stuff downtown. And the trolley is free. Really? I really like the city. Not a fan of the chiefs.

I was going to say, did you wear your Cincinnati Bengals? I should have. I'm sure that would have gone over great.

Yeah, no, they would have been fine because they won.

Yeah, they're okay. They'd be giving you a hard time.

So, yeah, the work trip with my wife, she went with me, had a blast, had a couple of really nice dinners, hung out at downtown a little bit. Yeah, a really good time. I'm glad. And we got to spend some good time together. Although I was off at work, we weren't in the evening. We were either out with friends or my colleagues and my work colleagues, or she just kind of hung out at the hotel there. But it was just a different environment, different place, different scenery, and was a really cool time. Had a.

That's fantastic. I was surprised years ago when my conference I had down at Disney World, my wife got sick and tired of me going down there without her, and she said, even when the kids were young, she really surprised me and said, hey, what if I go with you to that conference? And she had a ball with her sister running around the Disney parks.

Nice.

Back in the early 2000s.

How about a resource?

It's kind of interesting that you mentioned Dan Miller, and I was talking about the research I'm doing about retirement or non retirement? Non traditional retirement. I'm not even sure what to call it. I want to find a good word for it. This book is called second act careers, and on the back of the book is an endorsement from Dan Miller.

No kidding.

How incredible is that?

That is incredible.

In this episode, is that serendipity of some sort?

Yeah. I had no idea either. We didn't even talk about this. You didn't even know. Those were bonus ideas that I had. As we were thinking, as we were talking, that came to mind.

I didn't even know what your topic was. And my quote for this week I think is relevant, too, but, yeah. So.

I go into the library's catalog.

From my computer and search for books, and I found this in my local library. There's a couple of others on the same topic that I'm checking out. It's not really the financial part of retirement because there's tons of books on that. And I may look at some of that material, but it's more of like, what are you going to do? I fear that day when I leave my work I've been doing for so many years and sit there and go, okay, now what's next? Like you were saying, kurt, with your question.

This idea that this book that you just presented just clicked a fantastic idea. Something that I've been struggling with, and I'm not going to reveal it here, but just something that I'm working on. It really piggybacks on that. So what's the name of that book again?

And who's the author? Yeah, so it's second act careers, 50 plus ways to profit from your passions during semiretirement. From Nancy Collimer. Yeah, she's got a website and everything, so I'm going to check it out. There was a particular section on travel in your second how to make money from travel, which is intriguing to me because I'm doing that already.

My resource is a little different. I am a huge Robin Williams fan, and I always have been, ever since Mork and Mindy and that special episode when he was on Happy Days, which was the catalyst for the Mork and Mindy show and his stand up stuff and his movies. There are a few movies that I'm not a big fan of, but generally, I'm a huge Robin Williams fan. And back in, I think it was 2014, we lost Robin Williams. And quite honestly, he took his own life. It was a tragedy for me, for the people closest to him. I'm not trying to make myself the point here, but it was a tragedy for me. It left a void because he was one of those comedians. At every opportunity I could find I'd watch him on tv or whatever it might be, and he was just hilarious. He's not for everybody. Right.

He's brilliant. I would say brilliant, too. Some of these comedians, when they're doing their stand up, yeah, they're funny, but some of the ideas they bring to us are quite brilliant. He was one of those.

Right.

I felt he does a bit on the invention of golf. Look it up on YouTube. The invention of golf by Robin Williams. You will die laughing. It's hilarious. Hilarious. I think it is. Well, David Iskoff, an author, wrote an, a biography on Robin Williams, and it's a long, meaty, detailed biography. And I'd listen to it on the way to and back from Kansas City, and I'm only about halfway through. We drove to Kansas City.

Oh, wow.

So I think there's a good 30.

Hours into this book, maybe more. It's a long, detailed book.

Are you surprised by anything?

Yeah.

Intriguing.

There.

There is. I'm surprised at how he always struggled with kind of self confidence. And first of all, he didn't have a terribly tragic childhood like you would was actually, his family was very well off, but he didn't connect with his father very well. His father always worked. He was an executive of some sorts for Ford, and he spent a lot of time by himself. And in his early drug use, the author was very upfront about that and how that impacted his life and why he went down that road and his marriages, the failed marriages and how they failed and just what a deep soul he was. And you kind of knew that. You kind of felt that. Sure. His struggle with relationships and fidelity and drug use, he was such an interesting man. And on top of that, arguably the funniest man in the world. He died because he had a form of either. A form of, I'm not there in the book yet, but I do know this. He died of a form of dementia or Parkinson's or something like that, and he took his own life. But you got to think, here's a man that left such a void, Robin Williams, that this void is gone forever. I don't think there's been anybody like him, or it'll be years since. We'll see another one of this brilliance, another man of this brilliance.

It's quite hilarious.

Hilarious guy. So the book is called Robin. It's an audiobook by David Iskoff. If you're a Robin Williams fan, I really invite you to check out the book. It's long. Put yourself in a good long car ride or listen to it an hour a day. For the next ten years. Whatever it is, it's a really good book, Rob.

I like biographies. I do like biographies, no matter how I consume them, whether they're on YouTube or movies and even books.

So let's wrap up with our quotes.

I see retirement as just another of these reinventions, another chance to do new things and be a new version of myself. That is from Walt Mossberg. I looked at him up. I didn't recognize who he was. And he was a tech writer or is a tech writer. I don't know if he's still with us or not. I just found that interesting. That's what his career is. But that seemed to have fit in what we were talking about.

Absolutely.

I didn't even know what our topic was going to be. Usually I try to get a quote relative to our topic, but another chance.

To do new things and to be a new version of myself.

That was, like, one of your questions, right?

Absolutely. How appropriate is that, man? It makes you think that we can, at any moment in our life, reinvent ourselves, right?

We're not stuck here.

We're not stuck here. Especially if you're unhappy or unsatisfied. You don't have to be stuck anywhere.

You can take wherever you are in.

Life as another chance to do a new thing and be a new version of yourself. I love this Walt joke. That's a good one.

What?

Sure.

Mine comes from none other than arguably the greatest president that ever lived. If you take a poll of, generally, the american public, he's always ranks as the top two president. Yeah. Top two.

Yeah. I'm partial to Ronald Reagan.

But I would definitely rank Abraham Lincoln as the top president.

Well, Ronald Reagan didn't free the slaves, dude.

Hey, listen, I didn't put him at.

Number one or save the union.

I didn't put him at number one. Clearly, Abraham Lincoln is number one, right? Don't call me out like that, dude. I was getting there. Abraham.

Kind of like George Washington, but it's okay.

We were not going to argue Abraham Lincoln. I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live up to what light I have. Yeah.

He's also one of the most quoted people ever. He's got a lot of great quotes.

He's got a lot of them.

Yeah. I'm not bound to win. I'm bound to be true. You don't know if you're going to succeed, but at least you're going to live up to. I was about you was going to say, live up to your values.

Yeah, same thing.

What light I have, right?

What light I have.

That's the thing.

Whatever I can do, I'm going to do it. Yeah, that kind of dovetails, and I chose it for that reason. But that does dovetail into our subject, right?

Yeah. I mean, he's not bound to succeed, right?

We don't know about any of that.

Right? He's just bound to do what he can do. Right?

It reminds me another one, my dad sayings, do the best with what you got.

Very pithy.

Why do the best with what you got?

Do the best with what you got. So at that, the best thing we got right now is our website, dudesinprogress.com. Dudesinprogress.com. By the way, that's not true. Our website is not the best we've got. It needs some updating, of course, as we try to move forward and fix that. This podcast is the best we got. But our website is pretty good. Dudesinprogress.com dudesinprogress.com if you want to reach out to us, you can email us. [email protected]. By the way, on the website, if you see fit that you want to support us, you certainly can do that through our patreon. Just go to dudesandprogress.com slash support. Our episodes are there. How to contact us is there? Or you can email us. [email protected].

Kurt, remember, no matter where you are.

Go as far as you can see. And when you get there, you'll see further. But progress is better than perfection. So wherever you are, no matter what fog is ahead of you, just keep moving forward.

If I get stuck next week, I'm just going to give you a call, all right? So you can unstick me.

Got you. See you, pal.