Stay for the Encore: Lessons on Persistence and Progress

You ever finally get to do something you always dreamed of as a kid? That was me the other night at a concert for a band I wanted to see for decades. Styx. The energy was amazing. The music was everything I had hoped for, and I was all in. But as the band got down to the last four songs, including the encore, people started leaving. I'm looking around thinking, really? You've waited all this time, paid the money, showed up, and now you're just walking out before the show is over? And it hit me. This isn't just about concerts. People leave things early all the time. Careers, goals, relationships, right before the breakthrough. So today, Joe and I are asking, what kind of mindset leaves before the encore? What can it teach us about commitment, growth, and staying the course? Stick around, because the best part might be just ahead. I'm Curtis, my pal over there. Rocking out to the last song is Joe, and we are dudes in progress. Hey, Joe.

Hello, my concert. Gorn. Gorn, pal. How are you?

Slow start, as you noticed.

Boy, Kurt, you have picked a scab on this one. For me, this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. It really is. I can't wait to hear what you have for us, because this is something I think I could talk a bit about.

I had these notes up for a while, and I was thinking about this. Maybe people are going to find this kind of mean. I'm being mean to the people who are walking out early.

It's not mean, but it is a. An interesting observation. When I sit back and I experience this, it sounds like you and I are kindred spirits here. If I'm going to a baseball game, I'm staying all nine innings. I don't care if we're losing by 10 or winning by 10. I'm staying all nine innings. Unless I get called away for some weird emergency or something like that. But if I go to a concert, I'm staying till the very end. In fact, I'll wait just to make sure. The encore. There's no encore. To the encore. To the encore. Right.

Sometimes they fake you out.

Yeah, I usually stay till the very end of a movie. Watch the credits just to see what the credits are. See if there's anything interesting. See if there's any names I'm surprised by. See where things were filmed. And every once in a while it pays off at a movie because you'll get those. I guess they're called Easter eggs or whatever you might want to call them. An additional scene right in the middle of the credits or an Additional scene at the very end. There's two additional scenes in the most recent Superman movie my wife and I saw. And they're worth staying for. Just quick little scenes that are interesting. Yeah, I stay to the very end.

That's great that you're into this topic. Just to give some more color around this. As kids, we went to a lot of concerts. I don't remember anyone leaving for the encore was over. The show was over. Everyone left at the same time. Yeah, you gotta beat the crowds and stay in traffic. And it's annoying. This is more of a trend at this venue I'm going to. I don't know. It's not really. I shouldn't say it's the venue. I feel it's the age group that I'm going with because it's an older crowd and it's a Tuesday night and this has happened more than once. And we're sitting in the second section on the floor. I'm in the end seat. And it's very annoying to me. Also, it's very noticeable because they're in my way of seeing the show. And it's Joe. Crowds of people walking out before the encore.

For the life of me, I don't understand it. And when I've asked people, I have a couple times that really stand out in my mind. One was a baseball game and one was a Christian men's conference that I went to several years back. And there's a universal answer. There's a universal answer every time I've asked this question of somebody that didn't have to get home because their wife called and their kid just fell and cracked their head or something like that.

Yeah.

It's one thing. I just don't want to sit in the traffic, man. It's the traffic. And I don't understand for the life of me, maybe. I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get how you pay a hundred dollars or more. 200, $, 300 sometimes for a concert. And the last song is going to be the best part of the concert. Right? That's the one everyone's waiting for.

Yeah. The last two songs were. Oh, boy. One was Renegade. I know they finished with Renegade, which is Tommy Shaw. They were just killing it at the end. You're right. And these were the best seats in the house. People from the first section on the floor.

Now, could it be that these people have seen this show 50 times over and they already know? I remember being at a Christian men's conference several years ago. And these Guys are four or five of the guys we went with, a dozen guys are starting to get up to leave. One of the guys was, the guy was one of the guys driving the van that we all came down in. And I said, what are you doing? I said, well, this is the last speaker. Might as well leave now and beat the traffic. I don't want to sit in traffic all day long. I'm like, it's. This is, it's the last speaker because he probably has the best things to say. It's the wrap up. It's the culmination of everything we've heard up until this moment for this whole weekend. And ah, no, I said, you guys can go, I'm staying. And I was stalwart, man. I'm like, I'm staying, right? I'm staying. You guys can go. And then it was like I was a pariah to a couple of these guys. Like I was being over, overly stubborn. No, I'm staying. And the guy who spoke his name was Irwin McManus, I think rocked it out, man. Just was really, if you're into this thing, spirit moved. It spoke to the heart. Really convicting, really made you think. Great, great talk he gave. I'm with you on this one, man. I stay.

That reminds me of those Lotosphere conferences, technical conferences in Disney World. I went seven of them and the first couple I wasn't as I didn't know as many people. I come to build a. Be a part of a community of people and I didn't go to the last speaker, which was usually a famous person. I remember Jim Gaffigan was one of them and he was a comedian that I did see and someone convinced me to stay for the last speaker. And because you're way off in a lot of different directions and people are trying to get home, catch airplanes. So leaving early, I get that in a way. But to catch the last event really started to be one of the things I really enjoyed doing because like you said, a lot of times it was a fantastic and usually it was a fun thing. They had a magician or somebody that was illusionist one time too that was really spectacular. Yeah, stay for. But I don't know. This is the whole central question I'm going to be asking Joe and I have a question for each. I got six themes to think about related to why do people leave early? Why do they leave concerts? I think you're right. It's. It is the drive home. And the funny thing about that is my daughter and I, we always want to go to the bathroom. We take our time because there's the opposite thing. If you want to beat the traffic, wait till everyone leaves.

Who wants to sit in their car for an hour, just hang out there? I. Eventually you have to leave the venue. The ushers and the attendants will come and kick you out. But still, that's going to take a while. Wait till it's almost empty.

I feel this is one of the easiest traffic wise venues to get out of too, because I literally have got to go a couple blocks and I'm on the highway and I'm on my way home. But it works out better. We'll go to the bathroom sometimes. We'll buy the merchandise, we'll buy our T shirt after the show. And it works out great, everyone. So thank you for all you that leave early. I'm not trying to be mean about this, but why do they leave? I started thinking, like I said, as you're getting at this age, when you're a little bit older. I've always looked at people, I look in their cars and they just have this like, stare, like they're bored with life.

Yeah.

And it's the same people walking out of the concert. Like I said, it's an older crowd and they just want to beat the traffic.

Right.

I don't want to live life like that. And as, especially as I get older, I don't want to be pessimistic, grumpy. I don't want to be the grumpy old man.

Well, we can choose that, Kurt. And I think you have chosen it. I've chosen it. I don't understand. They. It's the traffic, right? That's the universal reason that we get. But there's something more than that. Why don't you, why don't you want to wait in traffic? What's the, what is so painful about waiting in traffic? Why is that such an issue? Are you sitting right on empty and you just can't, you can't sit there? Well, plan a little better if that's the case. But I don't know. There's got to be something deeper than that. Something deeper that causes people to not want to be. To not want to experience any discomfort to the point that they're willing to sacrifice what may be the most important part of an event, what may be the most enjoyable part of an event, what may be the most entertaining part of an event. They're willing to sacrifice that because they don't want to be uncomfortable for an hour sitting in traffic. To me, that's always the funnest. Part, especially in a concert, because what we always do when we go to a concert, we may have bought the CD or we find the artist on Spotify and we continue to rock out to their music right. Right there in the car. So I. I wonder what's deeper there, because it's not just traffic. There's got to be something deeper. So I'm really curious where we go with this.

I can relate this to personal development, of course. Why do people quit in life and why they quit growing? If you don't, these are some of the things that you could really benefit from people who are successful. There's the power of commitment. I'm going to talk about not seeing the full picture, the lureal, instant gratification. We're going to compare finishers versus the quitters and distractions and priorities and growth and discomfort. But first of all, the power of commitment. Staying the course. A quote for you. Quitting early is easy. Commitment means showing up even when it's not convenient. Yeah. People left before the best part. Just like many of these people, they leave goals before they blossom. Like you said, the best part, Joe, right before they. They get to the best part, they quit. But commitment requires time, belief, and persistent. So may I ask you, can you recall a time when staying committed felt irrational, but looking back, it made all the difference?

Other than every concert I've been to, every event like this that I've been to, I can get really deep on this one several years back. We've talked about this before and I know that you and I share this in common. But if I can think of the time that making a commitment made all the difference in the world and sticking with that commitment and letting it work itself out and letting it and staying there helped my understanding and experiencing the situation helped my understanding. And I grew from it. And I'm a thousand times better person for it is my faith and following Jesus. This was hard for me. And when I made a commitment to became a. To become a follower of Jesus, that was tough for me personally and tough for me socially. And there came some ramifications from that. But I know that I knew that this felt like the right thing. And because I stuck with it, because I allowed God to work in my life and I allowed the people that I surrounded myself with to present their faith to me and give me more understanding. And I read the Bible more and I prayed more and I just stayed. Kurt, I know this is a huge thing for. We could think of a lot of answers that might be minutia but that's a. That's the time that I recall that because I stayed committed, it felt irrational in the beginning. It felt silly. It felt weird that now I've started believing in this Big sky buddy. That's. That's up there. Wow. It made all the difference in the world to me because I stayed there. How about you?

That's a great example. Yeah. I'm thinking of my move from. In technology. I was working in that Lotus Notes technology and doing some other things, technical leads. And I wanted to get into learning this new tech, this technology that was new for me, SharePoint. And I asked to go to a training session. It was a couple days at least. And I gotta tell you, Joe, it was not clicking. It just. It didn't feel right. I was struggling. I think a lot of people in the room had more experience already. I think I took a class that was a little more advanced than I was ready for. And it definitely felt. I felt like quitting. It just is not felt like the right thing for me. And I already had doubts of what the change I was looking to make. But I didn't give up. That was before I really accepted the job. That was right in this technology. And that's where learning takes some perseverance. And if you do stay committed, and I think there's a fine line of, hey, am I going the right direction? When do you quit? That's probably a whole nother episode, but I'm so glad. You know, the thing is, if you do stay committed, you do reap the rewards by going through it. And now I love what I do. I am right in the right place I'm supposed to be. So that's kind of interesting. It was really. It was a really rough start, but I'm glad I stayed committed. And I'm pretty much like that when I'm learning something.

And there is a time to realize that the returns will never be worth the effort. And you've proven that over and over again through whatever process you're going through. But I think those are more rare than they are common. I think for the most part, if you stick with something, you started it for a reason. You had some vision in mind. You had a why. And that's something that's important to this as well. You had a why that motivated you to start this. I think sticking with it and seeing it through to the end, even if it's not the final destination and it rarely is. You learn so much by that journey. By sticking with the journey.

Yeah. Going through the hard stuff.

Yep.

Absolutely. Definitely hardens you. I love historical examples. We're going to use our buddy Walt Disney faced multiple business failures before creating the Disney empire. Love his biography. Watch anything about Walt and you'll be inspired. Beethoven committed to composing despite going deaf. Sylvester Stallone. We've. Joe and I love his movies. We've talked about him. But he turned down big money for Rocky because he wanted to play the lead. I could understand that he was not an experienced actor. I can understand directors wondering if he could be the lead for that. And, boy, he was the perfect. He struggled for years before he succeeded.

I don't know anybody else that could have brought that passion, man. Right. And I think that passion was. Because that was his baby. Yeah, that was his.

Yeah.

Nobody else could be Rocky but my daughter.

You just made me think of the Broadway play Hamilton the First Emmanuel. I'm sorry. I'm gonna mess up the writer of it, but, yeah, you know who I'm talking about.

Sure. Sure.

Should be very embarrassed for me right now. He wrote that. He writes the music and the play, and it's amazing in so many ways, but she says he can't really sing and he's one of the leads.

Yeah. But his passion certainly comes through. Right.

I didn't notice that. She's just a Broadway snob. All right. Seeing the full picture is my second one. The best is yet to come. Why you should stay until the end. So many people quit one song before the breakthrough. Yeah. You always hear the stories of the gold diggers who are five feet away from the cold and they quit before the big breakthrough.

I just heard somebody mentioned that story yesterday on a podcast I was listening to, where one of their big concerns in life is how far are they from their goal if they don't know, how far are they from striking that? There's a part of that story that. That bothers me a bit because there does come a time to throw in the towel. There does come a time. But if you have. If you know what's. If you know what you're heading for, you know what you're looking for, and you're focused on that. That's. That's. That time is rare. And I think you just keep digging, man.

Gotta enjoy the process, too, right? For sure. Success often comes after the hardest part. My question for you, Joe, why do you think people abandon goals just before the breakthrough? Have you ever had a moment where staying one more round changed everything?

Oh, that's two questions in one.

Okay.

So I think to answer the first part of that Question. I think people abandon goals because they don't have a really strong why and they don't have a process in place to move themselves forward right now. Sometimes they don't have a step by step process from beginning to the end. Most of the time we don't. Or if we do, it quickly changes. But what keeps us on track is our why. Why are we doing this? What is our intention? Or for lack of a better word, what is our goal? What is the passion that's driving this? That's what keeps people from. That's what makes people abandon their goals. They're just. They have no why.

Yeah, I think you're. Exactly. If it's something that you are extremely passionate about, you're gonna get there. I just think in all these success stories, people who failed multiple times, but this is just something that's in their soul that they got you. What do you think of this movie, Rudy, as an example?

Oh, it's awesome.

And did he win?

In his mind, he did, because look at the path it put him on. He could have never imagined that his experience at Notre Dame would have put him on a life path of motivating people, speaking engagements, writing books, being a mindset influencer. He would not have imagined where this took him. All he knew is he had a passion to play and he followed that passion and he stayed there. And what did. He was in one play at the end of a game, right?

Yeah.

Made it. If I understand the story, he made a pretty significant tackle or stop whatever happened, but it was a pretty significant play. But who knew that him sticking with this would have put him on the path that he's on, which is pretty amazing.

Yeah. I think it is a good example of even though he had no business being a Division 1 football player for Notre Dame.

Right.

Because of his size and. But yeah, he sure did. I think he. In the end, he did one. But. Yeah. And he wanted to quit. Boy, did he want to quit.

He.

There's a great. The Rock. Is that his name that plays the field maintenance manager?

Oh, yeah, he played. I can't remember the actor's name, but he played Rock in a sitcom.

Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, he convinced him to. Are you kidding me? We finally broke down and told him his story that he played for Notre Dame and he had that opportunity and he was carried off the field. He's the only player ever to be carried off the field at Notre Dame.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, I love that.

So how about you answering the second part of that question. Have you ever had a moment where staying just one more round changed everything?

Yeah. I'm going to go back to high school in my desire to play, be a starter as on the basketball team. We had really good teams when I was in the lower grades. From sixth to eighth grade, we didn't lose a game in our summer leagues. We went 75. 0. So there was a lot of high expectations for us. But there was a coach in my high school who didn't favor me that much. And when I was a freshman, I didn't start. And in the freshman, I think on the JV team, I didn't start. Even that summer, I learned that the coach was quitting. He was leaving the one that didn't really favor me as much. And a new coach came in and I worked so hard. So I. That was that one more round. I'm just gonna. I know I had people encourage me and said this. You weren't really treated right and you've got a lot more on the ball. And yeah, I really worked hard. I can remember I was just hearing someone talking about running with a weight vest. I used to run with a weight vest. And I really improved my jumping ability. And I was big enough to play a forward in a small school and really had some great moments. Joe. I started my sophomore year in the senior team.

That's awesome.

Three years in high school and was the cap. I ended up being the captain of that basketball team and we won a championship.

Very cool.

We won our league championship. So, yeah, that. That's always been a great motivator for me. I think in a lesson in what we're talking about, just because you fail doesn't mean you're a failure. Thomas Edison failed 1,000 times before inventing the light bulb. I've used his saying before. When I'm developing software or I'm troubleshooting something, I'll say, no, I didn't figure this out yet, but I found four or five ways that don't work right.

Put those in the manual.

Howard Schultz, rejected over 200 times before investors let him build Starbucks. 200 times. Could you get rejected 200 times?

Clearly, I've not told you about my dating experiences in high school.

Look how things have worked out. That's funny, Colonel Sanders. I didn't know this. Got over a thousand rejections before someone bought his KFC recipe at 65 years old.

Yeah, he didn't even start his process until his 60s. And he just hit the road and started sharing it and finally hit gold. Man, that's a his story is a great story.

Number three, the allure of instant gratification. That's a real thing. These days I feel delayed gratification is the key to real growth and have what you want or you can have what lasts. Leaving early is about short term comfort. Growth comes from patience, not shortcuts. Joe, in a world wired for speed and comfort, what's a way you personally train yourself to delay gratification and keep your eyes on long term growth?

This is an interesting mindset issue for me because to me, I'm not when I stay at a concert or when I stay at event, or when I stick there, sometimes it's hard, but that's not, that's not a hard choice. For me. It's not a choice over discomfort, over comfort. Maybe it is a choice between maybe getting home late, getting having to get up early and experiencing that discomfort and the discomfort of traffic and sitting there with in front of cars and waiting for them and maybe getting aggravated. But to me, it's not a discomfort to stay there at the baseball game or stay there at the show. I'm enjoying the moment and maybe that's it. To enjoy the moment that you're in. It may seem you may think you'd be more comfortable knowing something else or experiencing something else, but stay in the moment that you're in and enjoy that moment right there. Ways of I may personally train myself. I think of a couple things. The first thing that comes to mind is there's some really good books on stoicism by Ryan Holiday. And there's a really good English translation of Meditations by Marcus Aurelius that talks about stoicism. And stoicism kind of focuses on that delayed gratification and being in the moment and not being swayed too far one way or another. So I would invite people to read some books on stoicism by Ryan Holiday. Really good stuff. But the rules I've set up or ways that I personally train, I've set up some rules for myself. I don't always follow them, but when I follow them, it works out. It works exactly like I want them to. The first rule I can think of is rules for my phone. I have three rules for my phone that is completely delayed gratification and completely against what my habits are. I love that dopamine hit when I go on YouTube or when I go on Facebook or I'm watching a short or whatever algorithm they get me caught up in. So the rules that I have for my phone I don't follow. Like I Said, I don't follow all the time, Kurt, but this is a way that I've personally trained myself to delay gratification. And like I said, I love that dopamine hit that my phone gives me. That's the truth of the matter. I like smoking cigarettes and I don't smoke anymore. I haven't smoked in 30 something years. But know that I would like it if I started again. But the rules for my phone is no restaurants. When I'm with people, I don't take it into a restaurant. If I'm with people, I want to be there with those people and not on my phone. I don't take it in the church with me anymore. I want to be present in the moment while I'm at church. And I don't take it to bed anymore where I'm laying in bed watching videos or whatever it might be. That's all delayed gratification for long term growth. It helps me, it helps me focus on sleeping. Right. And other stuff when I'm in bed. Church helps me focus on my relationship with God and my relationship with the, the other people at church. And when I'm in a restaurant, I want to be with the people that I'm with, not on my phone. Yeah, those are, those are just one way that I've personally trained myself to delay gratification. My morning routine does that. I don't always like to do my morning routine, but if I do something every morning that's part of my routine, nothing's more gratifying than just laying in bed. Right. And sleeping in. But getting up and doing my morning routine is important to me as well.

I think you hit it where we've talked about enjoying the process or enjoying the moment, being in the moment. I was thinking, what about when you're involved in something that's not that enjoyable, Like I'm involved in a big project right now. Sometimes it really gets frustrating when you're not finishing so something. And this is a project that was going on, going on for a long time. You know, when you think back on it, those things that you worked really hard on and put a lot of time in and when you do finally finish, there is a lot of feeling of that was awesome. I should have enjoyed the moment in all the. Even though it was hard, aren't those the moments that you appreciate the most?

When you look back in hindsight, you always appreciate those moments the most. So understand that's going to happen. Understand that you're going to look back on that, on this and appreciate these Moments. And that will, that motivates me to move forward when things are really hard. Understanding that and this comes with maturity. But you know the difference between knowledge and wisdom, There's a joke there. But knowledge is learning or doing based on the lessons you've learned. And wisdom is doing something based on the lessons other people have learned.

Yeah, I've heard you say that before. Yeah.

And if you follow some wisdom, you don't have to relearn everything. And this is one of those things that we need to learn is enjoy the moment, be in the moment, even if you're struggling. This too shall pass. Yeah.

Vincent van Gogh created thousands of works without recognition. I didn't realize that his success came after his death.

Yep.

Warren Buffett, of course, investing is a perfect example of this long term wealth through decades of patient investing. That's a hard one, putting money away when you could spend it. Right now.

Yeah, that's the American way right now. It's the culture that we live in. And I'd be a liar to tell you, I don't struggle with that myself. I struggle with it a lot, quite honestly. There's lots of places that I can delay my gratification when it comes to spending money.

This is our culture. I've heard of other cultures and learning about the Japanese or other cultures who understand this, they don't need that instant gratification. They're okay with putting the work in and getting the benefit later. All right, number four, finishers versus quitters. This is a mindset. I think a lot of this stuff is mindset. But success favors those who finish, not those who flinch. Finisher mindset equals discipline plus focus plus plus belief. Yeah, I love that. Discipline plus focus plus belief. Those are finishers. I'm thinking of my parents when I was growing up and I wanted to quit couple of things and they would not let me. They said you wanted to sign up for this, you're seeing it through. So I think I. I'll give my parents some credit in this finisher mindset. They set the stage. I did not want to finish that swim program up at the cold pond when I was freezing at 6 o' clock in the morning when you went, I hated it. But my mother made me do it and I became a pretty good swimmer. Although it wasn't in that pond. It was in our pool my dad built for us not that long after. I think I won in the end. What's one mindset shift that helped you cross the finish line? Others didn't. And how can someone cultivate that in their everyday life.

I think this question is easy for me. Actually, the second part may not be as easy other than just allowing themselves to make the mindset shift. Right. I tend to. I don't want to say that I sloganeer my way through life, but I have little sayings that help me move forward. Right. So when I think about one mindset shift that helps me finish, it's this saying. It's this mantra, Joe. Just go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll see further.

Yeah.

No matter how much the struggle is, no matter how foggy it is in front of you, no matter how unclear you think it might be, just go as far as you can see, Joe. And when you get to that point, you'll figure it out from there.

Yeah. We were talking about the definition of done in a previous episode, and I was watching a video about software development in this PowerApp program. And this one trainer took a different approach this time just talking about the mindset of working with people and building a project. And this is what he talked about this. He didn't say the definition of done. But people will come to you and say all of these big ideas and dreams to build this thing.

And it.

As a developer, you're going to. All right, yeah, we can get there, but how about we break it down to a smaller. What would. What could be that mvp, we call it that.

That minimal viable product.

That minimal viable product. What could that be? And. And so that's something you can finish and feel good about. You can have that discipline, that focus and that belief about that little piece. And then. And they're always happy with that. I always say you gotta train your users or the people you're working with a little bit, because they'll be their own worst enemy. But that's a great thing to do.

There's also a saying that I like, and I heard this from the now recently passed. I guess he died maybe a year ago, maybe not quite that long. Dan Miller, from 48 Days to the Work youk Love. And Dan had sent something. I think it was on Facebook or Twitter or in an email or whatever it might be. But he asked this question, and I love this question. What would you do right now if you were brave? Think about that. When you're scared and you have anxiety and you don't know which way to go and you're feeling weak and vulnerable and unconfident, what step would you take right now if you were brave?

That goes, you know what? I like this Finisher mindset, where discipline equals focus and then belief. So I can have discipline. I'm pretty good at that. I'm pretty good at focus and discipline. Or you break down. Is that belief, like you say, you gotta believe. You gotta be brave and believe that you can do something before you can finish. I'm thinking of. We know J.K. rowling's story. She finished Harry Potter. She was broken, depressed, and rejected 12 times. But she had to have believed in that story, right? Why would you keep going after eight rejections?

What?

That's where. Yeah, Fury had the discipline, the focus to. To build that. To build that book. But you gotta believe in yourself. Nelson Mandela, 27 years in prison, but didn't abandon his principles. Why? How could you have any hope in a South African prison after 20 years on the mind? 27.

Yeah. Those two stories, J.K. rowling and Nelson Mandela, are amazing stories. I really invite you to investigate both of those because J.K. rowling, like you said, she had nothing, man. She had nothing, but she had a story. She had a universe, a world that she believed in. Right. That she was. That she had created. And she knew that it would be. It would connect with people if they just had the chance. So she just stayed in. She just stayed in. And finally she had the breakthrough. And she's a billionaire now because of it. And the money's not. The money's not the most important thing to her story. Do you realize how many kids turned back to reading because of J.K. rowling? How many kids picked up books again and started making it a part of their world? My daughter, my middle daughter especially, became a voracious reader, super intelligent. Now because of her interest in the J.K. rowling books and her reading those J.K. rowling books. Yep, that her interest in those books led to her interest in reading other stuff led to her. Her broadening her horizons. And yeah, it's. J.K. rowling had a huge impact on a generation.

Such a great point. And what if she quit after the 11th rejection?

Right?

She had every reason to. Nobody was seeing it. The fans saw it when it got out there.

Absolutely.

Caught wildfire. Isn't it so fascinating? Number five is distractions and priorities. Staying focused, avoiding the temptation to leave early. When you know your priorities, you stop chasing distractions. Leaving early can mean you're not fully present. Progress requires clarity, not convenience. How do you personally filter out distractions? Stay true to what matters most, Joe. Especially when everything else feels urgent.

Oh, yeah, the word urgent strikes a chord with me. And I'll Talk about that here in a second. But how do I personally filter out distractions? Three words, simplify.

I thought you were going to say one word. No.

Yeah, yeah, I could have said that too. No, that might be the better answer because I'm big on saying no. But if you simplify your focus, you can eat more easily. Say no, because you can. If you're simplified, you know what you need to do because you simplified it. You have the. You've not overcomplicated your project or your process or your mindset. You've simplified it. You know what to do. So when those distractions come and those, those, those people come into your world and want something from you, if it's not, if it's not part of what this simple goal is, the simple mindset is it's easier to say no. And you're right, I probably should have said no. But I think if you simplify, it's easier to say no. That's how I cut out distractions. If I'm working in a, in a project and I don't know the next path to go and I've gone as about as far as I can see, I look at my process and I said, how can I simplify this? And it goes back to our recent conversation Effortless, the book effortless by Greg McGowan. To simplify your process. And how can. What can you do to make sure you do something right now? And that'll help. That helps me stay focused. But I've talked about this in the past too, is Stephen Covey's four quadrant planning matrix. Yeah, this really helps me out when I have several things going on and I can't figure out what the most important thing is. So what I do is. You've probably heard me say this before. I will write on a piece of paper four quadrants. Quadrant number one is urgent and important. Quadrant number two is not urgent, but important. Quadrant number three is urgent but not important. And quadrant number four is not urgent and not important. And you can probably figure out what each one of those mean if you want a deeper analysis on those. I think we've talked about it a couple times, but just reach out to me, I'll explain it to you. But that helps me focus and understand what's, what's urgent. But I would say no and simplify.

And I'll just add get things done before 7am the more the important things to me, to my personal, whatever I'm working on, the things that are my priorities, if I can do them early in the morning I just watched a video that was inspired by someone at work telling me go check this out. And that was a big part of it. One of them was drink water before my coffee, which I know I should do. I think Steve Jobs is a great example of this because he focused on. He got really obsessed with focusing and simplicity and he just cut distractions mercilessly. I think he is a great thing person to study when it comes to that because obviously he focused on the right things for the amazing products that he's created in this world. Last one is growth through discomfort. Why pushing through matters the encore of your life is waiting if you can outlast the pain. Leaving early often stems from discomfort. But discomfort is the gateway to transformation. Can you talk, Joe, about a moment when discomfort nearly derailed you? What helped you push through to the encore side of growth?

This is deeply personal to me, what I'm about to tell you. For about a year, this was years ago, I worked two jobs. One of those jobs was I was starting a business and I was actually publishing a magazine that, that. That shipped to the. To homes on the east side of Cincinnati. And so I was starting a business. I was working a part time job to keep money coming in. So I was working a lot. Well, part of starting the business is I had no health insurance at the time and my wife was diagnosed with a illness, lupus, pretty serious illness at the time. She's much better now. It's in remission or whatever but we had some serious medical bills that we were facing and I stuck with it. I stuck with this business and I stuck working two jobs and just worked. It wasn't. It wasn't the easiest time but at the end of that I ended up selling my. Selling my. I eventually built the magazines to. They were a relative success, pretty successful. People still know me here every once in a while about from those magazines here in the east side of Cincinnati and eventually sold that went on to a better job but was so much better for it on the other end because of my ability to stick through it and build that business to a success. Had to work that other job to keep money in to keep money coming in until I built that business to a success and eventually sold it and moved on to greater and better things. So I real. But I really had to just push through and stay there and it was uncomfortable for a year. It was hard and I've had hard moments in my life other than that. But that's. This is the first one that came to mind. But I stuck to it. Built the business to a relative success, ended up moving on from that business. But it was a hard period of life that I'm glad I pushed through.

That's something we didn't talk about. That distinguishes from quitters is that motivation or necessity. You have no other choice. You gotta make this work.

It is a mindset because you always have another choice. I could have just given up, right? I could have just said no. I'm just. It is what it is. And people do that all the time. People do. All people just give up and their life shows it. Unfortunately.

Yeah. I think of times where I've hated my job and I never just quit. I never quit. I always started looking for another job. I'm looking for a different opportunity to get me out of that. I never quit a job. I always found something new to replace it.

Sure. How about you? Have you had a. Have you had a moment where discomfort, nearly. How did you put it derailed you?

I was an athlete. This is not as dramatic as yours example, but I never liked long distance running. I tried to do cross country. I was horrible at it. I played basketball and baseball primarily, and those were all sprinting things. It's a whole different thing when you try to run long distance. And there was a point when I got into it and I wanted to run this seven miler. It's a really famous race in my area. And I saw people that would walk. That always annoyed me. This may be the same thing that walking out of a concert before the encore. Why run a race and walk half of it? And I said, there's no way. And there was a huge hill at the end of this race. It's about seven miles, a little over seven miles. So it was the biggest, longest one I had ever run. And yeah, there's a lot of discomfort when you're running now. It's not a marathon, but for me, I'm a big guy. I'm. No, I'm not built for running if you want. That could have been my excuse, but it was. I found it very personally challenging. And that was the fun part about running. And you built up your endurance. And I did run that race. I did finish it. It ended up being probably the last race I did because I also developed planters fasciitis, which I still struggle with to this day. And that was about 25 years ago. But I remember that as a really great growth moment and something I was really proud of. And people get a lot of pride from these long distance events because it does. While your mind works, boy, you gotta struggle through a lot of discomfort to finish that race for sure.

No doubt.

Well, Joe, we really had some struggles getting this podcast created today. First of all, I thought we were starting at 7:30 and it was 7. You reminded me by calling me.

Then I had the hiccups. Although we always start at 7. We've never done this at 7:30, but that's.

We meet 7:30 on Saturdays, which I had mixed up. So I'm a little. I was a little bit in a fog and I was burping and belching and hiccups, which luckily went away. And then your computer crashed halfway through the episode.

But we pushed through. Right?

We're finishers, dude.

You decided that you weren't going to have the hiccups. You decided that you were going to show up. Right? You could have easily said, and this is the truth, you could easily said, hey, nah, I came in late, let's just do this some other time. And I could have called you when my computer crashed and said, oh, let's not finish this. We'll. We'll try it again. My computer's crashed, but fix the issue, which. Not really fix the issue. I just turned my computer back on and we pushed through. Yeah. A little microcosm of our own show here in the show. Good show. This was good. I like this discussion. This was prompted by a conversation we had about your Sticks concert and how it drives me crazy when people leave early. And it dovetailed into a whole life lesson. So I appreciate this, Kurt.

I offer you guys a challenge. Where in your life are you leaving before the encore? And what's the thing you need to stay with even when it's uncomfortable or unfinished? And as usual, we're talking to ourselves and that's why we do the show. So thank you, Joe. That was fun. What's your win for the week?

My win for the week is our company just merged with the segment. We have two segments of our. We have many segments of our business in our parent company, and one segment of our business is. Is merging with my company. I'm being appropriately vague. Right. But one segment of my business is. Of our business is merging with another segment. So they had to put together a transition team for. To make sure that merger goes smoothly. And they asked me to be a part of the lead team for that transition. So I feel pretty good about that. That's.

Yeah, it's great to be chosen.

It is.

Does that mean you got twice the responsibilities now?

That's the way it always works.

Right?

No, I've Hired some people and I'll be able to unload some of that to some very good people. But, yeah, there's going to be some other stuff going on.

A lot of times our win for the week are times we spend with our family and being present for that. Well, my youngest son, Ben, treated me to a Yankees game as a Father's Day present. He had given me a card that said, we're going to the game on the 27th. And if you've been following the Yankees like him and I do, it's one of our things. We got together. He's a big baseball fan. His girlfriend is a huge Yankee fan. And so she went with us also. And they lost like big time to the Phillies on Friday and Saturday and our game was on Sunday and we. He was like in a rut. He's like, they've been playing so horrible. They got clobbered the first two games. There was rain in the forecast. Well, it ended up all working out great, Joe. It didn't rain. I think they delayed the game till 2 o'.

Clock.

It was a 1:30 start and they never got rained out. Matter of fact, the sun came out and we end up having a great time. And they won a close, fun game. That was a good day in New York. I hadn't been to a Yankee game in a long time and it was fun spending time with my son and his girlfriend.

What fun. I know how much you love the Yankees and you love going to baseball games. I'll bet that was an absolute blast. And to be there with your son and his girlfriend, awesome game. Even if it wouldn't have turned out awesome game. Did you stay till the end?

Yes, we did. We absolutely did. That's. He probably got that from me. He's the same way. He's. Ever since he was a little kid. He was very much into the game. He understood the game at a young age and always enjoyed. He remembers everything, too. He'll say, dad, remember this when Derek Jeter hit two home runs during the game? And I'm like, no, I don't remember. Why do you ask me?

That's awesome.

He's fun. He's fun to go, but he was a little. He was a little down. I want. I got to talk to him because the big trade deadline was yesterday and Yanks picked up some pretty good ballplayers. We'll see how it goes. How about your resource?

Well, this is an interesting resource for me. I buy a bunch of these every year and I may have even given this a resource about the same time last year. I'm not sure, I'd have to go back and look, but I buy a bunch of composition books. You know what those composition books are? They're card the books with the funny black and white design on the front and you can get them in college rolled or wide ruled. I always buy college rolled and I always buy 10 or 15 of those when I see them on sale. And I use them throughout the year. I use them for business notes and planning and journaling and just taking notes in general. Part of my morning routine at work is I actually write out my calendar on one of these composition books. And I use them all the time and they're not terribly expensive. On an everyday every day at Staples you can get them for a buck or two, maybe a couple bucks a piece. So they're not terribly expensive. Well, because it's back to school. Composition books at staples are 50 cents a piece. Oh wow.

I saw this ahead of time. I got excited because I love those too. I usually get them for a $25 at the dollar store.

I mean I buy them all the time.

I know why I love those so much. They're perfect size.

Perfect, perfect size. They I like college ruled because I don't like big thick lines. But yeah. 50 cents. Composition books at Staples, maximum 30. Okay, I bought 12.

I gotta check that out. I'm a big fan of that also. I like doing my journaling and notes. That's a fantastic one. I don't know, I struggled with my resource this week. I didn't even have it in there. Another thing that got a slow start, but I did pick up a book. I just started reading it. It's called Winning the War in your mind. This topic I think is vitally important. It comes up in my life all the time. It's the what you think about is so important and we're always thinking, we're often thinking negative thoughts. And even though I feel I'm a positive person, this is something I gotta work with all the time. This is a book by Craig Groschall. It's part of my Kindle Unlimited. I found it a little quote that I had in my book this morning. I like to send people quotes I read, but this was one that I sent off to my son and my wife. We have a little chat going on. The battle for your life is won or lost in your mind. Your thoughts will control you. So you have to control your thoughts.

That comes from this book? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

It is a Christian based. I didn't Realize it when I started really reading it, but that he gets right into the St. Paul verse of why do I do the things that I do when I don't want to do them?

Oh, boy. It's a great. It's a great verse. It is. Love that.

Let's finish off with our quote for the week, Joe.

Well, mine comes from none other than Billy Joel, the Piano man himself. In fact, one of the streaming services, it might be Netflix, they have a great, great documentary on Billy Joel and Billy Joel. Billy Joel, he's. He's a great singer. Everybody knows Piano man and some of the songs that he does. But when you start realizing how many hits he had and how many songs that. It's unbelievable. A few years back, my wife and I went to a Billy Joel concert. The tickets were actually given to us. And it's one of those people that I never probably wouldn't have gone to see, but I'm glad I went to see, because one of those great singer songwriters that you want to see before either you die or he dies. And Billy Joel has this quote, and I just love it. And it's perfect for what we're talking about here. The encore isn't just a bonus. It's the emotional high point. It's when the band plays what the crowd didn't realize, they need it.

Yeah, makes my point exactly. That's what I'm talking about. This is why I was so negative about these people walking out. You're missing the best part.

This is the high point, man. This is what you came for. Even when you're right in the middle of that encore, even though you may not have realized that this was going to be so great, it's great. The people that are there are the people who stayed. They're celebrating with you. You're singing with the band. It's a song you already know. It's everything that you came to that concert for. It's not just a little bonus concert at the end.

I know.

It's the emotional high point.

There's that part where they walk off the stage, everything goes dark, and everyone's clapping and screaming and carrying on, and.

You know what's going to happen. You know, they're setting up from the encore, and still people are like, oh, I guess it's over.

Time to leave.

Excuse me. Pardon me. Pardon me. Excuse me. Excuse me, Pardon me.

Walk in front of me.

Excuse me. Oh, did I step on your foot? I am so sorry. Don't you realize that he's about to play Piano Man? We've not heard Piano man yet.

That is the karaoke standard.

Heck, yeah. I'll sing it every time.

Exactly. Everyone's singing, have a good time. I agree. Good job, Billy Joel. My quote comes from Billy Somebody. Billy, Sunday, stop at third base adds no more to the score than striking out. It doesn't matter how well you start, if you fail to finish.

You know what my favorite play in baseball is, Kurt? My favorite play in baseball is a man on first. Long fly ball hit to far center field or far left field, whatever. And the man on first is rounding second, rounding third. Here comes the throw. Here comes the runner. Here comes the throw. The ball's in the air. The runner's halfway down the third baseline. Here comes the runner, Here comes the throw. And that second at the plate. That millisecond at the plate right before the ump makes his call. Safe. Oh, I love it. I love it, man. I love that moment. And had that runner. That moment wouldn't exist had that runner stopped at third.

I got a high school story. I gotta tell you. I was pretty fast. I was talking about my basketball. But I started center field my freshman year. But they pinch hit for me. So I was a freshman because I was so good in the outfield. He started me in center field. Matter of fact, the normal center fielder was senior who pitched that game.

I remember.

But you'll love this story. Then I'm on first. I get on first base and I take my lead, and I think the coach gives me the delayed steal. You know what the delayed steal is? That's where you take off before the pitcher makes his motion at home. And the coach is. I see him at third base going nuts, like, screaming at me to get back. And I keep going. The pitcher throws the ball into center field, and I get up and now he's going, come on, come on. He's cheering me on. And this was against a team that we lost all the time to, a really notoriously good team that we would lose close to. So now the ball is out in center field, I'm coming to third, and he starts sending me home. And would you believe I scored from first base on a delayed steal? And I was the hero that won the game. I slid all the team, came up to me and was aft. I made the biggest dopey mistake ever in a tie game. I took off on a delayed steal. And the coach was laughing afterwards. He didn't give me a hard time. He said, well, there you go.

But it worked out.

It ended up working out.

See, I love that play don't stop.

At third base, guys.

I love that play. It's my favorite play in all of sports.

I wish I had that on video. It was the funniest thing.

Yeah.

All right, take us home.

Well, great show, Kurt. Thanks for bringing this to the table. Don't leave early. Stay there. Just try it. You'll be okay. That's the lesson. You'll be okay. Stay for the encore. Stay for that last out. Stay for the last speaker. Just stick to it, man. Our website is dudesinprogress.com dudesinprogress.com if you want to reach out to us, you can do that by emailing us dudesudsinprogress.com Like I said, stay there, man. Part of progress is sticking in there.

Yeah, for sure.

Even if it's ugly, even if it's nasty, even if your team's losing, stick in there. I've been to many games, and I can say this truthfully. I've been to many games where bottom of the eighth inning, the Reds are losing by six points, by six scores. And they come back to win. Yeah, everybody's left. Love those games. It's ugly. It may be ugly, but progress is better than perfection. Stay in there and keep moving forward.

Joe, we had that. My son and I were game. We went to where my brother in law gave us tickets. He had won. They were horrible. All through eight innings, got into the last thing. Matter of fact, there was a rain delay even during this game. People left during the rain delay, but would you believe they hit a grand slam to win the game at the end? It was the best game ever. So definitely stay to the end. Guys, thanks for hanging in with us this week again.

What a great show. Talk to you soon, pal.

It.