Wisdom Worth Sharing: When and How to Offer Guidance

How often do we hold back wisdom, afraid it'll come across the wrong way or worse yet, go completely unheard? Well, today we're exploring how to share wisdom with humility and boldness in the relationships that matter most, from handling tough conversations to leading by example. And we'll break down some practical tips. Let's talk about making a real impact with the people closest to us. I'm Joe. My New Year guy over there, he's Kurt. And we are dudes in progress. Hello Kurt.

Hey Joe.

I've missed that finger point over the past several episodes. Haven't seen it in a while.

That's like the Wayne's World.

Kurt plays some music in the background. I can't always hear it, so he points to me and lets me know when the music has stopped so I can say, hello Kurt. Well, happy New Year, buddy.

Yes, Happy New Year. This is New Year's Eve. We're recording in the morning. We both are not working the day job today or tomorrow. So this is, this is very nice. I've had a good time off, how about you?

I think my vacation time, my time off started on the 20th, which means I worked all the way through the 20th and I actually worked late on the 20th. I think I worked up until 6:30 or 7:00 on Friday the 20th and I've been off ever since then. I jumped in my emails here and there just to answer a few things and answer a few texts and handle a couple emergency situations. But other than that, yeah, it's been a lot of downtime. No, I wouldn't say a lot of downtime. That's not exactly true. When went to see my grandkids and saw my, my daughter and my son in law up in Zanesville and we did Christmas of course. Right. I would say my real downtime didn't start until this past Saturday the 28th.

Okay.

You know when all that stuff is done and you can sit around and watch movies and just think about nothing for a few days. That's what I've been doing.

Have you been thinking about nothing or have you been contemplating 2025? The values. We did a show on 2025 and your values or did you already have that work done before?

I had most of that work done. My calendar's here and I'm looking at Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 and I've got some big rocks laid out there. And I've done some simple planning, not in depth, but some simple planning based on values and some things I want to, I Don't want to say accomplish necessarily, but some directions I want to head. And this year, as you know, as we talked about in that episode a few weeks ago, 2025 for me, Kurt, is a year that I want to unfold. Not necessarily mold, not necessarily plan out to the nth degree, but based on the values that I, I want to. I want to focus on. Let's go on this great adventure. Let's see what happens.

Yeah, I haven't put any pressure on myself to get real specific in goals or things that I want to accomplish yet. I got today and tomorrow. If that's going to happen, I'm just going to let it happen, too. You shared a great book you're going to talk about in your resource this week with me that I started reading. I had another book I was reading, a little bit of contemplative thought and prayer I've been doing. And just, I love those. I'm really getting a lot of that quiet time early in the morning to just spend with myself. And yeah, I'm kind of just leaving it, putting it out there and seeing what's going to come back for me. Nothing real concrete. I'll let you know when I settle in on something.

When a big epiphany comes your way. Right.

It doesn't have to even be a big epiphany. Right. Like you're kind of taking it as it comes too. And I'm just. I got my ears open, put it that way. I'm trying to be open to something that really speaks to me wherever it comes from. And I love this book that you're going to share with later. I've been, gosh, I'm pretty far in. It's a pretty easy read, but there's some great thoughts in there that's helping. So I appreciate you recommending that to me or you bought it for me. You bought it for me and sent it over to me through Kindle.

We're not going to go deep into the book at all. I'm just going to mention it because this is a book with a lot to it and I think that we can make a few episodes out of this book itself and really bring value based on this book. And I'm looking forward to that. But yeah, definitely is a good book. I went back and forth on a couple different things. Kurt, I wanted to do your typical New Year show. Hey, this is what I have planned for the new year. And this is. This is. What do you have planned for the new year? And what did we learn last year and all of that stuff, and I decided not to. Part of it is I've spent a lot of time with family over the past few weeks, and with the holidays and all that going on, visits from family, me, us visiting family, and some real good intimate time, some good conversations with family. And what I found myself doing is getting into conversations where I'm offering advice and maybe trying to impart a little bit of wisdom. I started thinking to myself, we have a lot to offer. We, meaning people of our age and experience, and we've been through some trials and tribulations and some victories, and we have some wisdom to offer. And sometimes I find myself holding back wisdom, holding back advice, holding back counsel, maybe because I don't know how to frame it, or maybe I can feel myself wanting to be a little bombastic about it and a little straightforward and not want to necessarily hurt people's feelings. But how do you feel about giving advice or even offering unsolicited guidance or wisdom to people?

When I think about giving advice, Joe, the quote that comes to my mind when you were talking about this and leading up to this question was Mark Twain, who said, it's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.

Yes. Yes.

So I feel like I am cautious when giving advice, particular thinking of my family and my kids. When I think they're in a place where they would maybe need some advice, they're going through a struggle of some sort. We've had some of those situations in the past year, and I think I feel comfortable then. But this is. Always. This little quote's always in the back of my mind. I don't want to appear. I'd rather be quiet and appear stupid. Then. Then open my mouth and remove all doubt.

That is a philosophy definitely to live by, especially in less intimate situations. Quite honestly, for me, in a meeting, business meeting, or in a. In a situation where people are just kind of bouncing ideas off each other, I. I do tend to be the one to kind of sit back and be quiet until I can kind of connect the dots between what's already been said and some thoughts that I have and then offer up something, usually towards the middle to end of the meeting. You know, if I am an idiot, I'll be quiet, right? Because I don't want to remove.

Some people like to talk just to hear themselves talk.

That's the truth.

And I don't like that awkward silence. But. And I'll. I'll probably break the awkward silence in that kind of situation, but I Don't want to just talk for the sake of talking, unless that's what we're doing, right? We're just banging ideas around. And I'm. I'm okay with that. Free.

And there's a place for that.

Yeah, I'm.

I guess what I'm talking about is when you see a situation that somebody's going through, and you know, either because you've been through it yourself, you know, somebody's that's been through it, or you. You're the life you've lived, whatever it might be, you know that you can give some wisdom, for sure, impart some wisdom here, some advice. You can help them move in the right direction. And sometimes it's unsolicited. It's unsolicited guidance. That can be tough sometimes. But I feel, hey, listen, if I really love this person, if I. If I have their genuine interest in. In heart, and that's something you have to do. You have to check your heart. Right? You have to check your intentions. You have to check your. If you're just. If you're offering advice just to sound smarter than them or to build yourself up or to make yourself feel better about yourself, then you're coming into it with the wrong motivations. But if you're coming into it with, hey, listen, I've been there, and I would be doing this person a disservice if I didn't say something.

Yeah. If I've got confidence in that. I've been in that situation. Absolutely. I had that situation. We talked about an episode. We did. I did an episode here talking to my younger son about a tough time he's going through in the career space. And I've been there. Right. We've been in the situation not knowing, not liking what we're doing and all the trials and tribulations that go along with that and wanting to do something that's of interest. And I've got a lot of guidance there. I spent a lot of time in thought on that particular topic, and I can come with examples. And, hey, maybe you don't know this about me. And these are some of the things I did. When you were a little kid, when I was trying to raise you guys, when I was struggling and you guys meant everything to me, it was a very stressful time to be struggling with either the income or what I was doing, knowing that I was the provider for the family. So I've got a lot of experience there, and I can relate and offer guidance in how I. How I got past it.

Again, you would be doing that person a disservice by not offering up wisdom or advice. But the problem is, relationships aren't easy, man, especially when we're dealing with spouse or kids or close friends, the people we care most about. Sometimes they're the hardest people to guide. And then there's the real kicker. A lot of time, people won't ask for advice. I'm kind of like this myself. Wisdom isn't necessarily about forcing your opinion. It's about knowing when to speak and when to listen and how to leave a lasting impact. And that's what we're trying to do. Not be pushy about it, but make sure that we were able to effectively impart whatever we're trying to impart. And we're not going to necessarily go into the subject matter of wise advice, but we're going to talk about giving wise advice because we can sit here and read quotes, and we're talking about how to do it, when to do it, and the dynamics behind it. So let's get right into this, man. Talk about knowing when and how to offer wisdom. The best place to start is listen first. Really get an understanding of what they're going through and what they're, what they're facing and the struggles they're facing. Get an idea of what that, what that person's all about in the moment. Oftentimes they. People just want to feel understood. Right. I remember Stephen Covey's book, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, where he talks about, seek first to understand, then be understood, so listen first. Right? And I do want to make this caveat right here. I'm not good at a lot of this, man. I can be pretty direct, and I can be pretty. And I use the word bombastic, and that might be a little harsh on myself, but I can be pretty direct. And there's a time for that. There's a time to say, hey, you're. You're about to. You're about to run into the street and a bus is coming. Get out of the way right now.

Okay.

Yeah, but most of the time it's. You're having general conversation. You see people are struggling with something and, and, and you really know, you know what to do because you've been there. But it's really important to listen first and, and hear them out.

Well, I think that's a great first step. And you might not even have great advice or wisdom for a particular problem. I think I was thinking of this when you were talking about. How do you feel about giving advice? Well, it's kind of awkward. If I've never been in the position that that person's going through, how am I going to give advice? I've never gone through that. But being an empathetic ear to someone, as we've always talked about, it's no good to. When you're in a tough situation, it's always good to talk to somebody about it. It's just. It's going to make them feel better anyway. If you're just a. If you're just a listening ear, maybe that's all you got to do. Maybe that's your wisdom.

Just that by itself can have a dramatic impact. We know that we've been in situations where somebody had just heard us out, and it feels like they've just given us a oxygen. A boost of oxygen or whatever it might be that gives us. Gives us some. Some space to figure it out on our own. And then there's times that we listen and then we. We feel like, okay, I've got something to say here. I've got some wisdom to impart. So once we've listened and we've. We've really heard them out and they've get. We've given them that space and we've asked some. Some good questions, I think it's important to ask for permission, Kurt, to give advice.

You and I have a unique relationship in this area, too. I had anyone get into the personal issue I was dealing with, which wasn't all that long ago, and I brought it to you in our Saturday mornings and our other friend Clay, and I said, hey, I got something guys going on, and I just need to talk it through. And that was really helpful. I mean, your advice was very helpful. I didn't walk away from that session just saying, okay, that's what I'm going to do. But I had another conversation with somebody else and it was very helpful, and you didn't have to listen very long. It probably didn't take me very long to explain the issue, but still, it was extremely helpful to work through something that I was struggling with.

Yeah. And open up that door. A simple question like, would you like my thoughts on this? Or I have a couple ideas that. That might help. Do you mind if I tell you asking for permission is a real important dynamic. It can completely change the conversation. And just saying instead of just blasting out your advice.

Yeah.

It makes them a part of the conversation, I think, Kurt. It makes them a part of. It feels like they're in control still. And this isn't manipulative stuff. This is stuff to. To Genuinely help people. But I think it's real important to ask for permission. And again, don't always do it myself. Sometimes I just, I, I go in like a, like a bull in a china closet.

Well, you've done this with me throwing stuff out since you make sense. I'm going through something and you'll either text me or say, hey, is there something you want to talk about? And you've done that on a number of occasions. So you do it. Don't be so hard on yourself.

I appreciate that. Also, when you ask for permission, and I, and I do hope that you felt this way as well, it shows respect. Right? You're respecting the person's space, you're respecting their, their timing. And if they don't give you that permission, then you don't take that permission. Then you don't move, you don't move forward.

I've done that to you. I said, you know, I appreciate it. I really do appreciate you caring about this, but I'm not ready to talk.

About this, not right now. Yep. And you got to respect that.

I said, I may in a little while, but I'll let you know.

Again, these are the people that are closest to you that I'm talking about, the people that, that you genuinely care about. And you're looking, you're looking after their best interest and a kid, a spouse, close friend, whoever, whoever it might be. But it's important to ask for permission to move that, to move that conversation forward. And I think once you have their permission, you even. I'm not talking about soft stepping this. There's a time to be direct, but you do have to move deliberately and slowly. And I think it's a good idea instead of lecturing to plant some ideas. Sometimes the best way to share guidance or wisdom is kind of indirectly share a personal story or ask a thoughtful question about, about what they're going through rather than just giving them a directive. I just think it, it's less heavy handed and it opens the door with less friction.

Yeah, you can ask them questions too. What are you thinking of doing next? What's your plan at this point? Tell me what you're thinking about doing.

One question that I ask a lot, and people hear this question from me a lot is what do you want to happen? If people are really struggling with something, the simple question of what do you want to happen? It gives them space to really think about what they want and it puts them in control of the result. And they can see that, okay, I'm feeling these emotions or I'M struggling here, but this is really what I want the end to look like.

When you were going through your water damage, a year and a half of the flood damage, John, what would you like to happen and what would you like the result to be? You probably would have killed me.

There is something too. Instead of saying, oh, here's what you need to do, if you can give them a similar situation that you went through and let them know, hey, I faced something like this once and here's what worked for me. What do you want to happen or how do you want this to go forward?

Depending on the situation, you might have something that they might not know. Again, maybe it's a little bit of intense. I don't want to say the word technical, but it's like, hey, did you know that this was available? Because I had this and this is what I was thinking of a financial situation we were going through recently. And I discovered something from talking to my accountant, you know, who gave me some. Gave me a great piece of advice that ended up really solving the problem. So if someone else was ever encountering that same problem, I could offer that same advice that would be quite direct and helpful.

The underlying context is you genuinely care for this person and you want their best interest. And in that, knowing when and how to offer wisdom is the first step we need to take. Listen first, ask for permission, and then don't lecture, man. Have a sense of humility. Plant ideas. Give them examples of what they're going through. Ask good questions from a genuinely good place. Place of empathy and caring.

Yeah. Did you start off by saying, I don't remember who the quote was, but people won't ever remember what you say. They'll remember how you make them feel.

Yeah, that's a good one, too. People won't remember what you say. They'll remember how you made them feel. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. That's a really important position to come from. Let's get into some practical tips for offering wisdom and moving forward through this conversation through these, what could be tough, tough interactions, right? Sometimes emotions are high. Sometimes you have found out about this issue because people, people are in an emotionally charged state at that point. I think wisdom kind of takes a back seat until that kind of simmers down a bit. You gotta pause. You gotta pause before reacting. Pausing gives us a chance to calm down them. To calm down, calm yourself down. Because you may be into this thing emotionally as well, especially if you're dealing with those that are Closest to you, family members, kids, wife, spouses, brothers and sisters. And take a step back and pause and think about, is this the right time? It gives you the chance to calm yourself and consider whether your advice is even needed.

Dude, yeah, for sure that time will come. But yeah, sometimes some of these situations are pretty tough on the onset for everyone involved. Yeah, getting into wisdom and advice, the timing's bad. No one's going to be listening. It's not going to work. I'm thinking of situations I've been through for sure that panic time is not a good time to start giving wisdom.

So once you've paused and you've established that, okay, we're in a place right now where we can talk, speak with intention. Be very intentional about what you're saying. Don't, don't necessarily dilly a dally around at this point. Keep empathy in mind, but speak with intention. Let them know that you can help and here's how you can help and here's what you've been through, but be very intentional about it. This is not the time to be wishy washy. Once you've established it's time to speak and you've asked for permission and you've planted some ideas, now's the time to speak intentionally and directly. There definitely is a time to do that.

Yeah. And are you trying, I was thinking like you're trying to put a plan together and when you're saying speak intentionally, like you're setting up a series of steps that might be the steps forward from that point on. And if you're intentional about it and you get agreement back and forth, that can be very powerful. I think it can really relieve a lot of that initial shock and stress once things start moving and that if the steps you've laid out really start to, to work out for the problem.

Yeah. Simple questions like does that make sense to you or are you tracking with me or am I tracking with you or. Right, those kind of, those kind of questions show that you're, you're moving forward and you're speaking with intent and getting their buy in every step of the way, which is very, which is very important. Again, you're not trying to manipulate, but you've got something to say here. And this could be life altering advice. And if it is, you're doing them a disservice by not speaking out and being intentional about it. And clear. You also have to lead by example. This may come before you even have this conversation. But actions are more powerful than words. You have to be a person that has maybe fed into their life a little bit, and they see you as somebody that they can take advice from because you've led by example, because you've been there and done that, and you're coming alongside of them as somebody they can trust.

For sure. I mean, I think of, again, that career advice I was giving to a son and I gave him examples. You know, this. This was a rough time, but. And it was not easy. It was challenging and it was. It was awkward. It was. It was. But it was some of the most meaningful moments of my life when I did some of those. Those difficult things. But those were examples I could bring. You know, don't. Who wants to take advice from people that don't have the fruit, as they say, in the biblical sense?

Right, right.

But, yeah, it's very powerful if you've got really concrete examples that throughout your. Like you said, we've. We've been around long enough to have lived some of these situations in our past. And if you can bring those, I think for sure. I mean, that's. That's extremely powerful.

It's also important to simplify your advice. Get the noise out of the way. Make it down. Bring it down to some very few actionable pieces of wisdom. Focus on what truly matters in this relationship or in their situation. Cut out distractions, you know, cut out complicated processes and all that stuff. Right. Keep it very simple. Keep. Keep your advice actionable. Keep your advice clear. Get rid of the noise. And you'll know when it's. You'll know when things are becoming too complicated. Because complication leads to confusion. There's a bumper sticker for you. Complication leads to confusion leads to. And if the conversation is getting confused, figure out a way to simplify it. Figure out a way to simplify your message and simplify your advice. Get rid of the distractions. Get rid of the. All the auxiliary stuff and keep your message clear and simple.

Yeah, I'm thinking of that situation my wife was going through, and she was at the. Had her wit's end. And I said, you know what? Let's just have a conversation with the accountant. And that took a lot of the pressure off. Let's not worry about this. Let's not deal with this right now. Let's go get some advice from a trusted source and then go from there. That's just. Boy, that helped, I think, tremendously to her. And. And she had confidence in that. That wisdom or that idea. Yeah, right. And talk about simplify it. We're going to take one step, one step At a time. Because sometimes these things, when you look at the full problem that you're dealing with, I mean, take your, Your water damage, if you could break that down to the simplest thing to do first. Because you, in your head, you got all of these things you got to do. You got insurance companies and contractors, and boy, if you just break it down to what's the, what's the most important next step to take action on?

Yeah, there's something we say here a lot. Go as far as you can see, and when you get there, you'll see further. Right in that situation. And we did a. I think we did a whole show or even maybe just a segment on this. But when you're offering advice, one thing you need to help people do is eliminate catastrophic thinking and help people understand that, hey, we need to just take one little step at a time. The results will be the results. But don't, you know, don't go straight to the worst possible result right away. You know, tame that catastrophic thinking, tame that worst case scenario thinking. And let's just take a step at a time. That's wise advice, Kurt. I like that. I'm glad that you said that.

Well, you started it with your.

Simplify the, Simplify the process. Get rid of the noise. Right.

Yeah.

I also like what you said, is sometimes the best advice that you can give somebody is. Or the best wisdom you can give somebody is. Somebody else has the wisdom, somebody else has the advice. But I'll walk alongside of you and we'll go get it together.

Yeah. Who, not how.

Yeah, yeah.

She appreciates me when I, When I do get. I mean, she does a lot of that kind of bookkeeping, those kinds of things. But I have my moments. Yeah.

And finally. Let's extend some grace, man. Let's extend some grace to yourself, to the person you're dealing with, and move forward with forgiveness and understanding and grace that, hey, I'm here with you to figure this out. No judgment.

This is the hardest thing for me. I don't know why, but when someone's going through something tough that I have no idea how I can be helpful, that's a frustrating. I get very frustrated with that. Or someone who has like a really catastrophic thing, you know, the death of a family member. I don't know what to say, Joe. I really don't. I feel very awkward in that moment. I mean, because what can I say? What can I do? I mean, maybe it is partly. Maybe I haven't been in that situation before, but it. Maybe I've gotten better over the years. But that's a difficult thing. Thing for me to do.

It is. And if you find yourself in a situation where you don't really think that you can offer advice, don't just give them a hug.

Sometimes it sounds so contrite to say, you know, I'm sorry for your loss. I don't know. I wish. I wish I had the words, too. That could make them feel better. But it's. It's a frustrating position to be in.

That's where you need to extend yourself some grace. And by extending yourself some grace, you're extending them grace, you're giving them room. Because you're not force. You're not. You're not trying to force advice.

Yeah.

You're not trying to force a comment. Extend yourself some grace. Extend them some grace. Extend grace to the process and let it. Let it work itself out. But there's definitely times, man, there's definitely times that I've said it four or five times this. During this conversation, you're doing them a disservice by not offering up the wisdom that you have, the guidance that you have, the lessons that you've learned. If you have it inside you and you know you have it inside you, and you're just. You're afraid to move forward for whatever reason you have, Check yourself a little bit, man, because you could put them on a completely different path just by offering up the advice and the wisdom and the guidance that you have. And at the end of the day, wisdom isn't about knowing everything, Kurt. It's not about knowing what to say every time. It's about knowing the right time to speak, the right time to act, and the patience to let others grow at their own pace.

You know, related to this one, to add another bullet to you is don't be judgmental.

Yeah, I think I was trying to say that with extend grace, but, yeah, I'm glad you put you framed it that way. Don't be judgmental.

I'm thinking someone's come to you with something that could be embarrassing or this pretty bad thing that's going on. You. Some people could be just like, totally turn their back to that person in problem. Yeah, I'm pretty good with this one, that I am not judgmental. I recognize I have my own flaws.

Right.

I'm a sinner just like everybody else. And. And I do not judge, you know, some of these situations that people have come in confidence to me with. I've been pretty good at that, though.

That's a fantastic position to start from.

Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to move forward with grace. And no matter what they say, I'm not going to judge them.

Right.

I'm just going to let them. I'm just going to hear them out.

I want to be helpful. I want to be a friend. I want to. Or a parent, if that's whatever.

Now, there does come a time that you see, if you see him running in the. Running in the street and a bus is coming, that you gotta.

Yeah.

You gotta be quick and direct and bold. Right, Right. Let's just try pausing before giving advice. Listen first, ask for permission, Kurt. And when the moment's right, and you'll know when the moment's right intuitively, I think offer your guidance with humility, but don't be afraid to be bold about it. You have some very direct things that you can say that can put them on a different path. So offer up your guidance with humility and boldness, because when it's done right, man, your wisdom could make all the difference in the world to this person.

Joe, great episode. You know, I. This is. I think I'm better than. Again, you were giving yourself a hard time. I think I give myself a hard time, but I'm better at this. I think people will trust me. They know I'm analytical, more than emotional in times of crisis. And I think they appreciate my opinion or advice or wisdom. I feel that way. This can be a. This is a difficult conversation. I don't necessarily enjoy difficult conversations. It's not my favorite thing.

Yeah, I don't necessarily. I'm not afraid of difficult conversations. But I'm with you, man. I do. For some reason, I do find myself in a position where people are coming to me for advice fairly often, for guidance fairly often. And I'm honored by that. And I want to treat it right. And I want to give respect to the moment and respect to the person and respect to the situation. Sometimes the direct, bombastic way may be the best way. Right.

But most of the time, then you're asking for them to forgive you. You're doing your forgiven speech.

The apology tour.

The apology tour.

You do have to be careful when giving advice, especially unsolicited, because when somebody does show you their. Finally show you their soft underbelly, the last thing you want to do is stomp on it, man. By this judgmental, bombastic, overly direct. I'm going to say what I'm going to say because it needs to be said. That's not the best way. That's not the best way to move forward. The Best way to move forward with this is with grace and honor and understanding and take a step back and pause a little bit. Humility. With boldness, but humility. And like I said, when it's done right, man, your guidance, your wisdom, your advice could make all the difference in the world to this person for sure.

What a great reminder coming into. You know, you said this wasn't a New Year resolution kind of episode, but I'm feeling it a little bit as this is. These are the types of things that I've been thinking about. Like, it's not like, am I going to do this wonderful, amazing goal or achievement? It's more about who is it I want to be? What's my. Who's my best? Who am I as my. When I'm being my best and when I'm doing these things that you're talking through, this is when I'm being my best self.

As author Matthew Kelly will say, are you being the best version of yourself?

Yeah, I was just reading that. Exactly.

Yeah, no doubt. How about your stuff for the week, man? You got a win for us.

I win for the week. There's so many with this Christmas time we could go there, the visits with the family. But something right on the tip of my tongue that happened yesterday. And I'm so glad I took the time to do this. We talked about doing this. My good friend Glenn and his girlfriend Rebecca invited me down in New York City for a day. And he's a really interesting, fun guy that I don't get to see all the time. We've always said, you always have that conversation with a friend. We should meet up in New York someday or we should do this someday, and it never happens. Well, we pulled it off yesterday, and I went down to New York City. I was really afraid of the crowds being the day before New Year's Eve. Not crazy.

Times Square, man. That's the place to be, dude.

I know.

That is adventuresome.

I was a little bit afraid, but there were the hats in the Bamboozlers or whatever were being sold on the side of the street. I was a few blocks away. We kind of stayed away from Times Square and went to the Met. We took the subway up to the Met, and he's an art teacher, so he was explaining a bunch of the. I got a lot of culture yesterday, Joe.

Oh, you need it.

I'd surprise you how cultured I am now. Some beautiful man. My gosh. The priceless art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. We did that. Had a nice, fun Dinner. And then I made my way back. So, yeah, I did something I promised I would do with a friend. And, hey, relationships are important. So I accomplished that yesterday.

I tell you, I think it would be a good idea to have Glenn on the show sometimes for sure. To talk about appreciating art and the beauty of life and how to take a step back and appreciate the topic. Yeah, the beauty of life.

Well, he was explaining. We were talking about the. I'll get this wrong, but the Dark Ages and the Renaissance. And he was showing how in the art previous to the Renaissance, how everything was kind of kings and queens. There were classes that you were either wealthy or you were poor. There was no middle class until the Renaissance and how the art changed from that culture to democracy, really. And the middle class being born in Europe at that time. Really interesting. He had tons of interesting.

I always find that interesting. And we won't go deep into this, but I do find it interesting where you can see the progression of art from a very flat aesthetic to depth and perception and distance. I really. I think it's a good idea. I think we ought to have him on the show to talk about appreciating the beauty of art and bringing it into your life and how to make that. How you become a better person by appreciating art.

Wow. All right, I'm making a note.

Make that call, dude.

What was your win for the week?

My win for the week was, I think, very similar. Generally Christmas downtime, holiday downtime. I've been off since the 20th, kind of. I've done some. Few. A few things here and there, but very light work, but just relaxing. Watch. Watch some movies, watch some series. I'm watching a series right now. Not for the Faint of Heart, but I've always appreciated Billy Bob Thornton as an actor. And I think this is on Paramount plus, called Landman. Really good show, man. And there are certain roles that are perfect for. There are certain roles that are perfect for an actor. No, nobody else could play this role other than Billy Bob Thorton. Yeah, nobody else could play it. He's just perfect for it. And what I like about it is I'm familiar with the business that you're talking about. I spent a lot of time in West Texas, and I know a lot of things that. I know a lot of the scenery, and I know a lot of the things that they're talking about. I have context for what they're saying about the oil fields and pumping oil and all of that other stuff because of my work. And again, I'VE spent a lot of time in West Texas, but so, yeah, Landman is a good one. That's not my resource, but it's a good, it's a good show. Not for the faint of heart, man. You know, if you, if you've got tender ears, then okay, be careful. But I did get a lot of downtime this Christmas and these, this, this time. And it felt good. It felt good sometimes just to spend the whole afternoon watching a couple movies and eating leftovers.

I did a little bit of that. I got a little more to do before getting back to the.

A little more of that to do.

Right today and tomorrow.

Awesome. How about your resource?

This was something I planned. I was looking and researching this through YouTube and websites and I found this. I was trying to think of something I could do with my new Brad Nailer gun.

You got it, huh?

I got a Brad Nailer gun for Christmas. My daughter, Merry Christmas. She always asked me, what would you like, dad, for Christmas? And I wish I had this when I was doing my bathroom renovation. That would be a good time to have it. And I really couldn't find a. A good project. Maybe a planters. I'll probably do some planters or anything. But something really practical that I was thinking about was a vinyl record storage unit. And there's lots of different designs that I was looking through. And I didn't find a good YouTube video on this, but I did find a good blog post. And if you check our show notes, hopefully Joe will put this in there. John Vantine, I think his name is. And he built a vinyl record shelf. And really the. What was great was the cut, the cut list that he had here. He didn't really go step by step on how to build it, but still the cut list was a 4 by 8 piece of plywood, just one piece. I had it cut at Lowe's. I had a gift certificate for Lowe's. So for $42 I bought a piece of plywood, big piece. And he cut it. Two cuts at 27 inches. And I am amazed how well this thing fit together. It didn't take me. It wasn't very difficult me to figure out how I was gonna screw this together. And the nail gun did come in handy because when I'm trying to do it by myself and I bought a couple of clamps, long, bigger clamps, 36 inch clamps. So I had a couple of fails where it was falling over. I was trying to glue and trying to hold it something up so I could. But the little nail gun really Helped it. Nail guns aren't great for something this structurally sound. You need something that's gonna really be able to hold a lot of records, because that's gonna be pretty heavy. So you need screws. I knew this was gonna be something that was. But I could hit the nail gun and it would just hold in place and even, right? So I could keep it even and square. That was a lot of what I was doing. So I'd pop it with the nail gun and then I, you know, by myself. If I had. It's a good project to do with two people, I'll say that. But yet I was able to do it, and I'm really proud of it. I'm gonna finish it up today, probably do some stain on it, and I'll be putting some records in my new vinyl storage unit. I really like the design, too.

I'm waiting for your YouTube channel. Kirk creates. Kirk creates crates. Right?

I'll tell you. I'll tell you this. This one could use a YouTube video to show the step by step of it. Although it's not. It's a. You know, this is a beginner. This is something you could do as a beginner. And. And some of the cuts I had to make. I don't have a table saw, so I took my time and. And cut some of the bigger pieces that I still had to cut, but I. It really took me about six hours. I think I did all the cutting in that part in the first day. And then the next day I. I did the assembly. And I'm. I get just a little finishing up stuff to do now. But I love it. It's going to be something I'm going to get some use out of, too.

Well, awesome, man. Like I said, Kurt, I'm looking for your YouTube channel. Channel Kirk Creates. That's fun, man. My resource is the book that we mentioned a couple times during this show. It's by Matthew Kelly. Matthew Kelly is one of my favorite authors. He. He wrote many books that I've read. A Dream Manager. But probably my favorite book is the Rhythm of Life. I've read that probably a dozen times. I really like that book a lot. But he did a book that is really resonating with me and obviously with you too, Curt. Matthew Kelly, along with Alan Hunt. And I don't know Alan Hunt at all, but I do know Matthew Kelly and I respect his work. This book is called the Fourth Quarter of youf Life, Embracing what Matters Most. And I'm about 30% of the way through this book right now. And you said you're about halfway through this book, and it is great. It is a very good book, and I hope it finishes strong. But it's been so good so far that I'm going to offer it up as a resource. It's called the Fourth Quarter of youf Life, Embracing what Matters Most by Matthew Kelly and Alan Frost. Excuse me, Alan Hunt.

I think what we should do is you and I will pick out some of our favorite chapters. They're all little short chapters. It was like 40 chapters.

Yeah.

But there's some golden nuggets in there.

Absolutely are.

And this is a time when you mentioned it to me last week, and this is a topic that I ruminate on a lot in the last year, and the fact that he titled it the fourth quarter of your life, which I am right at the cusp of, according to his definition. So the time is so perfect.

We.

We've always talked about. I mean, we did this podcast about talking about embracing what matters most, being intentional. Intentional living. So all those topics and little nuggets and really quick reads. You could definitely meditate on this. And there's. You could answer questions that he has and contemplate some of the things. Sure. But, yeah, we're definitely doing some episodes on this. Yeah.

And when I think about a great example of somebody that is into their fourth quarter and doing great with it is our buddy Clay. Clay, if you're listening to the show right now, and you may be, we love you for this, man. You. You have the energy of a man that is looking at his whole life ahead of him, in his 40s, waiting for his whole life ahead of him. And you're not. Right. You're definitely in your. In your. In the fourth quarter of your life, dude. And you have the energy and the focus and the dreams, vibrance and the drive of somebody that is. That is still trying to figure out what they want to do with their life. Right. Still trying to, you know, still trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to be when I grow up, man, and we love you for that. So if you're out there listening, Clay. We certainly do. And if. If you don't know Clay Lamb, look up Clay Lamb. It's very unique name. Look him up, man. We certainly appreciate this. This brother.

He's very inspirational.

He is.

We try to tell him all the time.

Yep. And he's sometimes special guy, too humble to receive it. Right. And that's what. That's what makes him awesome.

Speaking of wisdom, he's got lots of wisdom.

He certainly does. He certainly does. So that's my resource. The fourth quarter of your life. Embracing what matters most by Matthew Kelly and Alan Hunt. How about your. How about your quote for the week?

This one comes from the book. This is one of the quotes that I came across in the book and it kind of surprised me who said this, but I thought it was quite a great quote that I never heard before. You are as young as your faith, as old as your doubt, as young as your self confidence, as old as your fear, as young as your hope, as old as your despair. From Douglas MacArthur.

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, that sounds very insightful and relatable to come from Douglas MacArthur. Right. Who you always kind of got the impression that he as much he just as well punch you in the eye as tell you what to do, right?

Sounds like the Dalai Lama talking about a World War II general.

That's awesome, man. That's a great quote that resonates with me. No doubt. Young is your faith, old is your doubt. Wow. How old is my doubt? Right? How does that hinder me? My doubt?

As young as your hope, right? As old as your despair. Like it talking about. Yeah, when you're young, you have a lot of these qualities. So even as you get older, maybe you should keep those young qualities.

My quote comes from Zig Ziglar. Now if you don't know who Zig Ziglar is, he's One of the OGs of personal development, business development. He's very popular in the sales and entrepreneurial world. Just a over the top kind of guy. Right. But I think Zig is of course passed many years ago, but a great guy to listen to. If you want motivation and encouragement, go find some of Zig's stuff. Zig Ziglar. But he says this and it really relates to today's episode, at least for me. Humility will open more doors than arrogance ever will.

Isn't that interesting? Some of these qualities that everyone aspires to and you're more revered for some of these qualities like humility, everyone can recognize arrogance and doesn't like it. Yep, yep, for sure.

So let's wrap up right there, man. Our website is dudesinprogress.com dudesinprogress.com if you want to email us. Dudesudsinprogress.com is the best way to do that. Best way to get a hold of us. Remember, if we're offering advice, let's. Let's go at the pace that the person that we're offering wisdom to, as long as we're making progress. We're doing a good thing. Because progress is better than perfection. Let's just keep moving forward.

This is a great reminder for me, Joe. I'm gonna do better next time. Next year, as we're moving into the new year, let's be our best selves this coming 2,025.

Just a few hours left. Talk to you soon, Bernie.